Author Topic: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers  (Read 34222 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 10:32:51 PM »
Based on the feedback left by an expert in Chinese coin, this is a fake PCGS MS65 1934 Dr. Sun silver dollar. Pictures are attached for future reference. Seller ID is quanchengqianwang. This is a high quality fake coin in a fake slab.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=300480811794&si=YqtpGNLuZRDeXD2LJkVpnnuB7wQ%253D&viewitem=

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=quanchengqianwang&&iid=300480811794&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 10:43:47 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 05:57:14 PM »
Seller "xiaolaohu999" is selling two fake PCGS slabbed fake coins. The fake PCGS slabs are old version. Picture of fake PCGS slabs are attached for future reference.

http://cgi.ebay.com/China-Chihli-Dollar-34th-Year-1908-Silver-Coin-/320639903243?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa7a0a60b

http://cgi.ebay.com/China-1932-Sun-Zhong-Shan-Silver-Coin-/320641047919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa7b21d6f



 

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 11:36:52 PM »
Here we have some fresh baked fake PCGS holders with fake coins. Check this link guys: http://pcgscoins.taobao.com/?search=y
 >:(If you use chinese website www.taobao.com (it is like our ebay) you can buy here everything. Don't buy any coins from this seller!!! Look at prices of each fake coin in fake PCGS holder - only 500 RMB :thumbdown:. Later those coins will find on our ebay and what we can do.
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Offline badon

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2011, 01:46:52 AM »
How do you find the coins on taobao? Is there a main category, where you can find all the coins?

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2011, 02:25:52 AM »
There is main category I believe but I am finding them by writing in Chinese the name of the coin. How do I do this when I am not chinese and I can't even write in chinese. Well I started use google translator. I write for example Yuan Shih Kai 1919 and it translate something like this: 民国八年. Then I coppy this Chinese letters into taobao.com and press enter. Just try it.
Here are some other examples:
for Yuan Shih Kai 1914 - 民国三年
Yuan Shih Kai 1920 - 民国九年
Yuan Shih Kai 1921 - 民国十年
Yuan Shih Kai 1914 made in Kansu provice - 民国三年甘肃
and so on...
So when you will see all those coins you can easly detect fake coins from the pictures and prices like here in this shop:
http://shop35436319.taobao.com/?catId=159396009&queryType=cat&categoryName=ucXN5srVstjXqMf4&encodeCategoriesName=y&search=y
4,9rmb, 9,9rmb. Those fake are cheap and very low quality
But there are also more professional fakes like here:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6709961327

http://shop35791592.taobao.com/?pageNum=1&catId=null&categoryName=null&encodeCategoriesName=y&price1=null&price2=null&searchWord=null&order=null&queryType=all&browseType=null

http://shop33222141.taobao.com/?search=y
or even here:
http://shop58068025.taobao.com/?search=y
There are more expensive fakes like those which I showed you in fake holders for 500RMB for one.
However among those cheaters in China there are also good coin cellers, like this one:
http://shop34129622.taobao.com/?search=y
All those PCGS holders are in very bad design. Like you can see you can coppy them and put fake coin into fake holder and sell for 500$ or more. PCGS I think doesn't have good enough protection of their holders. PCGS and NGC are the most trustful grading coins company and Chinese can easy copy PCGS holders. Of course NGC holders are also copied however those are those older generation holders. Is there a new generation holder made by NGC already copied??
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2011, 09:01:02 PM »
All Cert. # of fake PCGS slabs listed at taobao.com are given below for future reference. Some of them may already at US eBay.

173516.98/15040694    1901 China-Kiangnan Y-145a.21
171805.92/15939456   1908 China-Chihli Y-73.2
116626.62/05910826   1932 China birds Over (This is the same fake coin listed by seller "xiaolaohu999" mentioned in my post dated 1/9/11)
163775.58/12448891   1920-22 China Yunnan Y-258.1
116543.62/12789840   1914 China Y-329
115696.53/15191980   1895-07 China Hupeh-127.1
173515.50/13387448   1901 China-Kiangnan Y-145a.6
116636.63/16377357   1933 China Y-345
167894.92/16195111   1909-11 China-Kwangtung Y-206
207438.63/10115149   1908-B Great-Britian
172814.58/13348668   1914 China Y-322
116553.62/10884914   1919 China Y-329.6
116554.63/12247974   1920 China Y-329.6
116601.62/16559377   1927 China Y-318a
1006293.62/22116121   1908 China-Chihli Y-73.2
116601.63/15598943    1927 China Y-318a
170390.58/14724446   1912 China-Szechuan Y-455
116543.62/12481936   1914 China Y-329
161508.20/18298556   1901-08 China-Szechuan Y-238
116626.62/05910826   1932 Birds Over
116834.50/15333002   1899 China-Chihli Y-73
115696.53/15191980   1895-07 China-Hupeh Y-127.1
163735.58/12448893   1920-22 China-Yunnan Y-258.1
116526.64/11284829   1912 China Y-321
116601.62/16559377   1927 China Y-318a
116543.62/12481936   1914 China Y-329
116637.64/18228571   1934 Republic of China Y-345
1006293.64/21322862   1908 China-Chihli Y-73.2
166856.53/15825304   1949 China-Sinkiang Y-46.2
116554.63/12247974   1920 China Y-329.6
115697.53/18534136   1909-11 China-Hupeh Y-131
116543.62/12789840   1914 China Y-329
116591.63/14276006   1924 China K-683
116636.63/16377357   1933 China Y-345
116553.58/16452060   1919 China Y-329.6
141937.55/14208272   1900 China-Kiangnan Y-145a.20
116636.58/18297351   1933 Republic of ChinaY-345

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2011, 10:52:19 AM »
Dear poconopenn,
I talked with the Chinese seller of those fake PCGS holders. I was pretending other Chinese who wanna buy. I asked him from where did he get them. That if I wanna buy 500 of those with who should I contact. He gave me full address of the person in America who sells those fake PCGS holders with fake coins insite to Chinese sellers. They contacted by letter. Later transaction was by paypal between them. Chinese seller was just small shrimp. Person from America is little bigger fish but we don't know is on the top.
KONDi
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Offline dobedo

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2011, 12:02:02 PM »
Wow, great detective work, KONDi and poconopenn! Thanks for sharing.

Offline badon

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2011, 02:31:21 PM »
Dear poconopenn,
I talked with the Chinese seller of those fake PCGS holders. I was pretending other Chinese who wanna buy. I asked him from where did he get them. That if I wanna buy 500 of those with who should I contact. He gave me full address of the person in America who sells those fake PCGS holders with fake coins insite to Chinese sellers. They contacted by letter. Later transaction was by paypal between them. Chinese seller was just small shrimp. Person from America is little bigger fish but we don't know is on the top.

Just remember to protect yourself. These are criminals your dealing with, and they have attacked this forum before. I have no doubt they would be willing to hurt you if you shut down their business.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2011, 12:56:59 AM »
All Cert. # of 59 PCGS slabbed coins listed by this seller, "pkkmgbr", can not be found in PCGS database. Most coins in the slab appear to be overgraded and holder itself is questionable. The seller is from Germany with feedback about 20,000. Based on the latest 800 feedbacks (about six weeks), this seller has sold three raw republic Chinese coins and one modern Chinese coin, and may not be knowledgeable in the Chinese coins.

http://shop.ebay.com/pkkmgbr/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

Offline holist

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2011, 10:23:44 PM »
Hi Poconopenn,

Dont quite understand what you mean by "All Cert. # of 59 PCGS slabbed coins......"
Do you mean those with ending with 59 or all 59 pcgs slabbed coins?

Out of curiosity, I went to PCGS site to double check some of pcs like the so (wrongly) called "Pu Yi Wedding" and small YSK coins. Cert no did appear in PCGS site.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2011, 02:22:33 AM »
Holist,

The seller had 59 PCGS  slabbed coins in yesterday's listing and the current listing had increased to 115.  All Cert.# starting with "1728" were not in the PCGS datebase yesterday. However, I just re-checked again and they are in the datebase now. In any case, I still believe that many coins are overgraded.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2017, 11:51:41 PM »
The following two fake PCGS slabbed coins were listed recently and did not sell for the first time and relists were removed by eBay. The seller (pisceslunar) also sells many expensive Modern Chinese coins which are believed to be genuine. Based on the feedback, this seller might bought these fake PCGS slabbed coins recently from a known fake PCGS seller “worldcoins2002” who was suspended by eBay in April. This seller also bought raw coins from two questionable sellers “2010wenchangge” and “ashdei”. "pisceslunar" did return two raw coins back to "ashdei" and receive refund.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer&userid=pisceslunar&iid=-1&de=off&items=200

Pictures of fake slabs as well as HA pedigree are attached for future reference. Fake and HA PCGS slabs have identical Cert.# but significant differences in bar codes and slabbed coins. 

CHINA EMPIRE - 1906 TIENTSIN MINT in fake PCGS slab (MS66, Cert.# 10908444) with a starting price at $16,959. PCGS had only graded two of this rare coin, MS66 and AU53.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-EMPIRE-1906-TIENTSIN-MINT-VERY-VERY-RARE-PCGS-/350362032868

Heritage pedigree:  2007 January New York Signature World Coin Auction #425, sold for $40,250

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=425&Lot_No=50784#Photo

China Empire 1904 Kiang-Nan in fake PSGS slab (MS61, Cert. #13770673) with a starting price at $795

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-EMPIRE-1904-KIANG-NAN-HIGH-GRADED-PCGS-/350362037450

Heritage Pedigree: 2008 January New York, NY Signature World Coin Auction #458 sold for $488.75

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=458&Lot_No=50696

The pictures of second coin are given in the next post.


Today I received PM in response to above post (Reply #8 & 9) posted by me on June 2010.

Here is the copy of the PM.

Hi  This post has come to my attention:

 FYI:  eBay never removed those two slabs, I was suspect of these slabs at the time.  I removed them from eBay myself & sent those two plus several others from this seller TO PCGS & they were indeed fake >> unknown to me.  PCGS destroyed them & actually thanked me for sending them in.  The slabs themselves were utterly fool proof.  I would appreciate this post removed.  OR edited to reflect the actual facts.  I don't appreciate this uninformed post.
Regards;
Kenneth

Just for information, I bought few MCC during last few years from him and have considered him to be a reliable seller.