Author Topic: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers  (Read 33562 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« on: November 20, 2009, 01:57:00 PM »
Here are links to these two fake NGC slabs from eBay seller "kek02109".

http://cgi.ebay.com/1890-1908-NGC-CHINA-551-KWANGTUNG-Y-203-AU53_W0QQitemZ250533259577

Please note the label, 551 should be S$1 (silver one dollar). The final value is $154.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/1898-NGC-CHINA-S-1-Y-45-3-ANHWEI-MS61_W0QQitemZ250533257167

Please note the label, Y45.3 ANHWEI should be ANHWEI Y45.3. The final value is $1,592.89.

NGC is reviewing these two slabs and may be removed shortly. The pictures of these two slabs are given below for future reference.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 03:52:43 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC Slabs from ebay seller "kek02109"
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 02:54:27 PM »
Here is another fake PSGS slab (1928 PCGS XF-40 Kweichow Auto), with incorrect barcode, from this seller. This coin, if genuine will be valued more than $4,000. Pictures of this slab as well as Heritage aution coin (last picture) also given below as reference. Note the difference of barcode for the first six number (coin #).

http://cgi.ebay.com/1928-PCGS-XF40-CHina-Kweichow-Auto_W0QQitemZ250533255829

Based on feedback, Buyer "lindscoin" left three postive FBs on Nov. 10, but kek021709 did not leave any FB to this buyer. In addition, all three items bought by this buyer were removed by ebay. I do believe this seller will be suspended by ebay shortly.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 06:00:05 PM by poconopenn »

Offline hc286

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Re: Fake NGC Slabs from ebay seller "kek02109"
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 11:17:37 AM »
Interesting how their first 7 feedbacks are from bidders who are from China...

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs from ebay seller "kek02109"
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 12:34:03 AM »
Both NGC slabs mentioned above were removed today, two days after the ending of the auctions. Most likely, defrauded buyers had already made payment.

Here is another fake PCGS slab, 1923 PCGS MS63, China Y-336.1 being listed by this seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-PCGS-MS63-China-Y-336-1_W0QQitemZ250535584117

This item ended on Nov. 25 with final value of $1413.00.


The Cert # 13835186 of this slab was mentioned in a news alert by PCGS in March 2008.

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5286&universeid=313

Pictures of this slab is given below for future reference.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 10:58:02 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs from ebay seller "kek02109"
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2009, 12:18:05 AM »
After ebay removed two fake NGC slabs, two new fake ANACS slabs (1897 China Chihli silver dollar and 1934 China Seheh-Shen silver dollar) just listed by this seller. Now, this seller has fake slabs of three top grading companies.

Here are the links:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1897-ANACS-AU58-CHINA-CHIHLI-CHOPMARKED_W0QQitemZ250537764189QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5536e55d

This item ended on Nov. 28 with a final value of $204.50

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-ANACS-AU50-CHINA-SZECH-SHEN-513-1-BENT-CLEANED_W0QQitemZ250537765089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5536e8e1

This item ended on Nov. 28 with a final value of $350.

The pictures of those fake slabs are attached below for future reference. I am sure these items will be removed shortly, since ANACS is very proactive in protecting its trademark, unlike PCGS, which is very slow.  
« Last Edit: December 01, 2009, 11:04:18 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs from ebay seller "kek02109"
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2009, 07:50:56 PM »
To my suprise, the above mentioned two ANACS were not removed before the end of the auction. The final value for 1897 China Chihli silver dollar ended at $204.50 and 1934 China Seheh-Shen ended at $350. These two slabs are clearly fake; the space between lines of label insert are too narrow. In one of the label, the lines actual overlapped. Perhaps, nobody was working at ANACS/ebay during the holiday.

Here is another NGC fake slab from this seller with a wrong reverse (different date vs. pedigree):

http://cgi.ebay.com/1898-CHINA-S-1-KM-238-SZECHUAN-AU-55_W0QQitemZ170413438638#ht_500wt_1182

The pedigree was found at Heritage Auction (Jan. 2008 NY). The following is the link. This HA coin was ended at $1,955.

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=458&Lot_No=50708&src=pr#Photo

The pictures of fake and Hertiage coins are attached below for future reference. First two pictures are fake and last two pictures are HA. The differences of label inserts and coins are obvious; note the space between the lines and barcodes.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 03:13:47 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay seller "kek02109"
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2009, 03:28:39 PM »
The NGC slab mentioned in the above post was removed, two days after the completion of the listing (final value $225.50).

Dear eBay Member,

Thanks for reporting these listings to us.

I investigated these listings and confirmed that they violated our
Selling Currency policy. As a result, I removed the listings.

Again, thank you for your report. We appreciate your help in keeping
eBay a safe and reputable forum to conduct business.

Sincerely,

Heidi
eBay Customer Support

Item number(s):
170413438186 $US US !00000! 092409 ?01 -01
170413438638 $US US !00000! 092409 ?01 -01

Message: Both certified coins have fake slabs as well as fake coins.
PCGS coin has a incorrect barcode and NGC label insert is incorrect.

The PCGS slab referred herein also listed by this seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-PCGS-MS62-China-Y-31_W0QQitemZ170413438186

The pictures of this PCGS slab are attached for future reference.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 03:43:55 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 04:02:46 PM »
Here are two more fake PCGS slabbed coins from eBay seller "kingcoin2009". Both slabs have an incorrect barcode. Initial listings were removed by eBay in less than two days after reported. However, the relists were not removed. There was a possibility that PCGS might ask eBay to allow these two listings to continue and purchase these two coins as evidence to take further actions against the seller or try to find the source of counterfeit. The pictures of these two coins are attached for future reference. Both coins are believed to be high quality fake.

Initial listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-G-CHINA-DOLLAR-1922-PCGS-MS-64-Hunan-VERY-RARE_W0QQitemZ150410128821

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-G-CHINA-DOLLAR-1914-PCGS-MS-64-Y-322-VERY-RARE_W0QQitemZ150410126445

Relisted as:

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-G-CHINA-DOLLAR-1914-PCGS-MS-64-Y-322-VERY-RARE_W0QQitemZ150411402137  Final value: $5,665

http://cgi.ebay.com/K-G-CHINA-DOLLAR-1914-PCGS-MS-64-Y-322-VERY-RARE_W0QQitemZ150410126445  Final value: $8,600

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 03:03:07 PM »
The following two fake PCGS slabbed coins were listed recently and did not sell for the first time and relists were removed by eBay. The seller (pisceslunar) also sells many expensive Modern Chinese coins which are believed to be genuine. Based on the feedback, this seller might bought these fake PCGS slabbed coins recently from a known fake PCGS seller “worldcoins2002” who was suspended by eBay in April. This seller also bought raw coins from two questionable sellers “2010wenchangge” and “ashdei”. "pisceslunar" did return two raw coins back to "ashdei" and receive refund.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer&userid=pisceslunar&iid=-1&de=off&items=200

Pictures of fake slabs as well as HA pedigree are attached for future reference. Fake and HA PCGS slabs have identical Cert.# but significant differences in bar codes and slabbed coins. 

CHINA EMPIRE - 1906 TIENTSIN MINT in fake PCGS slab (MS66, Cert.# 10908444) with a starting price at $16,959. PCGS had only graded two of this rare coin, MS66 and AU53.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-EMPIRE-1906-TIENTSIN-MINT-VERY-VERY-RARE-PCGS-/350362032868

Heritage pedigree:  2007 January New York Signature World Coin Auction #425, sold for $40,250

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=425&Lot_No=50784#Photo

China Empire 1904 Kiang-Nan in fake PSGS slab (MS61, Cert. #13770673) with a starting price at $795

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-EMPIRE-1904-KIANG-NAN-HIGH-GRADED-PCGS-/350362037450

Heritage Pedigree: 2008 January New York, NY Signature World Coin Auction #458 sold for $488.75

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=458&Lot_No=50696

The pictures of second coin are given in the next post.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 11:43:31 AM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 03:14:45 PM »
Continue from the previous post.

Offline dragondollar

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 12:48:25 PM »
It's better to be extremely cautious buying dragon dollars on eBay, raw or slabbed. I'd say about 80% of them are fake (and some of them are very well done fake, you'd be hard pressed to notice from the pictures only). It's actually easier to sell "good" fakes slabbed in fake slabs or genuine slabs from crappy companies because then you cannot check the edge, which is often their Achille's heel. Even here in Beijing it's not so easy to find reputable dealers and get genuine coins... The market is saturated with fakes and there's few information online about these coins in english, that's why I started writing http://www.dragon-dollar.info , in the hope people can learn more about these beautiful coins and don't get ripped off by scammers.

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 04:36:48 PM »
Dragon Dollar, http://www.dragon-dollar.info is outstanding, congratulations! Please expand it as your time permits.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline badon

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 07:12:03 PM »
Reading about fakes is always good, because no matter what kind of coin it is, the attention to detail can be a good exercise. This one about dragon dollars is pretty cool, though I wish it had a picture that showed the flaw in the relief:

http://www.dragon-dollar.info/republic/fake-1914-yuan-shi-kai-dollar/

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2010, 01:15:46 AM »
Two fake PCGS coins listed by seller "roeefaroste". They are old generation (2008) fake holder from China. Pictures of fake coins are attached for future reference.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1898-PCGS-AU58-CHINA-DA-QING-dragon-silver-coin-/320612762780

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-PCGS-AU55-CHINA-CAOKUN-President-silver-coin-/320612763858

Here is a weblink to article entitled "Fake PCGS Slabs-Diagnostics, How to detect counterfeit PCGS holder". The article is for first generation (pre-2009) fake PCGS holder.

http://coins.about.com/od/coingrading/ig/Fake-PCGS-Slab-Diagnostics/

 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 01:34:53 AM by poconopenn »

Offline KONDi

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Re: Fake NGC & PCGS Slabs of Chinese coins from ebay sellers
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 12:36:30 AM »
That's right. You have to be really careful when you buy dragon dollars. I bought my dragon dollar 1911 with VF details from friendly coin collector and seller. This is his webside: http://www.chinararecoin.com/home.php :thumbup:
It is trustful person.
KONDi
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