Author Topic: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?  (Read 20050 times)

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Offline SANDAC

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Hello,
I'm a regular "silent" reader of the CCF forum.  I'm most impressed with the works of PandaCollector, Badon, and others on discovering new varieties of modern Chinese coins.  These excellent discussion have motivated me to look at my own collection closely and I believe I've discovered two varieties of the 1992 5 Yuan Cai Wenji Historical Figures!  My apology if these varieties had already been discovered and discussed here or somewhere else.

First, some background:  I have a total of 19 1992 Cai Wenji purchased as several small lots from 1999 to 2000.  One of the coin was submitted to NGC recently and came back as PF 69 Cameo with a population of 1. Another word, it is the first coin of its kind submitted to NGC.  :001_smile:

Upon close examination of my collection I found two varieties:  One has a "separated ribbon" flowing freely from the left sleeve of Cai Wenji's arm, while the other variety has an "attached ribbon".  What makes the ribbon separated or attached is the polish of the background field.  The separated ribbon has a polished background thus the ribbon appears freed from her dress while the attached ribbon has a matted field so the ribbon becomes part of her dress.

Placing the two varieties side-by-side I find the "separated ribbon" coin has a matted overall appearance and thus photographed fairly easily, but the attached ribbon has a glossy overall appearance and is difficult to photograph.
 
Out of the 19 coins, I have 3 separated ribbon and 16 attached ribbon.  Interesting, huh.

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 01:49:38 AM »
Great find! This is the first report for this variety, so good job posting it. One of these may be a restrike. From my research into the Kublai Khan coins, it appears to me that restrikes are rarer than the originals, so if I were to make a guess, I'd say the rarer one is the restrike. But, I'll have to study your photos more. It's probably more likely that it's just a variety of the originals.

Welcome to the forum!

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2011, 06:34:53 PM »
I only have one, and it is separated..., nice observation!

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 12:43:42 AM »
My best guess is that the separated ribbon is the original, and the connected ribbon is the restrike - assuming they're not both originals or restrikes.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 07:19:42 PM »
Watching the Ebay auction for the last six months, I've seen very few 1992 female historical figures listed for sale.  In fact, I just spotted the first Cai Wenji on Ebay today.

http://cgi.ebay.com/China-Silver-Coin-5-Yuan-1992-Historical-Lady-Cai-Wenji-/270759082331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0a7fb95b

I think it is because the 1992 female historical figures are minor players.  They carried the political overtone of race equality and gender equality, but otherwise insignificant.  I don't think there was much demand for them.  Cai Wenji, in particular, has another problem, it has a significant manufacturing flaw:  The last three characters of the first verse, Not, See, I, are poorly made and barely readable.  The character, Not, is especially poorly done.  It is just flat wrong.  The problem is obviously enough that if there is a restrike, I imagine the flaw will be fixed then.

So the two varieties may not be original/restrike, but from two separate mints?

Offline dobedo

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 09:33:17 PM »
SANDAC, First, your eBay link seemed to end prematurely before its time. Second, based on your pictures, looks like the bad Chinese characters only show up on your attached_ribbon and fine on separated_ribbon. So if there's restrike, it's likely the separate_ribbon version. Does this sound right to you?

Unfortunately I only have the flawed one with those barely readable characters, so am unable to compare them. In any case, it's such a shame. The 3 1988 coins have much better quality characters.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2011, 12:16:05 AM »
SANDAC, First, your eBay link seemed to end prematurely before its time. Second, based on your pictures, looks like the bad Chinese characters only show up on your attached_ribbon and fine on separated_ribbon. So if there's restrike, it's likely the separate_ribbon version. Does this sound right to you?

The separated_ribbon does have a somewhat better strike, but it only highlight the error of the character "Not".  The 2nd stroke of the Not character has an ugly blob on it, and the 4th stroke is mostly missing.  The same errors are on both the separated_ribbon and attached_ribbon.  The characters on attached_ribbon is truly terrible, but the separated_ribbon didn't fix the real glaring error, in my view.


I also noticed that the Ebay auction ended prematurely, only a day after it was posted.  The auction was going quite nicely with 8 bids at $103.50 last.  I don't know why the seller ended it.  Cold feet?

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2011, 12:17:49 AM »
Not cold feet. It was probably sold to somebody paying big bucks for it immediately.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2011, 12:56:08 AM »
Not cold feet. It was probably sold to somebody paying big bucks for it immediately.

It must be quite a bit over the $103.50.  I mean, if I were the the seller and I got 8 bids the first day and some one offer me twice the current bid to take it off market, I'm not sure I would go for that.  Just let it rides, the night is still young...  I just don't have any experience with this.

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2011, 01:06:13 AM »
The damaged characters are due to excessive die polishing. The characters used to be on the die, but they got polished away. I suspect the design was pressed into the die too deeply, and it was what made the frosted area remain after polishing on the connected ribbon. Once the die makers saw they were polishing out the characters, they stopped polishing, and left the ribbon connected.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 01:31:57 AM »
Thank you for that very interesting explaination!

I don't know much about the coin making process.  I noticed the connected ribbon also has a glossy finish while the separated_ribbon has a matte finish.  Is that consistent with the excessive die polishing theory?

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 01:48:42 AM »
The glossier finish is probably because it was frosted in a different way, and maybe also because it is a later die state. The differences in the frosting are what make me think one of them is a restrike and the other is an original. It's all very uncertain though. Right now, it seems the very sandy finish is mostly seen on coins that I believe are probably originals.

What we really need is LOTS of coins to examine and compare together to decide for sure which ones are restrikes and which ones are originals. Right now. it's a lot of guessing, with just the exception of the kublai khan, which I've studied personally (so less guessing).

Offline dobedo

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2011, 08:37:30 AM »
SANDAC's sample size of 19 is much better than my 1. The mintage figures for this coin I've seen include 30,000 (planned?) and 7,000 (actual?) How many more samples (or percent of total population) do we need to make such comparisons statistically significant and less guessing?

Also, SANDAC, what do you think a reasonable price for your one and only PF69 is? I saw a similar PF68 1988 Li Quingzhao sold for about $120 recently (I saw it too late), although it has a higher mintage (30,000/13,000) than your Cai. I just love those lovely ladies with characters, regardless how insignificant they were historically.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2011, 09:49:56 PM »
I use Mr. Ge Zhu Kang's mintage number as published in http://modernchinacoins.com/modernchinacoins/CHINESE_HISTORICAL_FIGURES.html
According to that, 1992 historical figures have a mintage of 10155, 3rd in the historical series with 1989 (5679) being the rarest.  You wouldn't have thought of that given the active 1989 Kublai auction in eBay, and the 1992 series are few and far in between. 

My theory for the disparity is that figures in 1992 series are either fictional or minor actors, AND it was 2-3 years after June 4 1989 where Chinese coins collecting was at a low ebb, AND Cai Wenji had glaring production flaws, so most of the 1992 coins are melted down!   :w00t:


Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2011, 09:59:24 PM »
Here is a question for PandaCollector or Badon:  Given there are newly discovered and readily identifiable varieties of 1992 Cai Wenji, how do I go about informing NGC/PCGS of these varieties so the proper label can be placed on the slab?  Thanks

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2011, 12:28:32 AM »
I actually wouldn't bother trying to get them labeled yet. They have a policy of not labeling varieties until they become important in China. That actually works to our benefit, because while China cares little for varieties, we get to identify the rarer ones and buy them up. Then, when they finally get recognized...profit!

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2011, 12:30:10 PM »
after a second inspection it turns out mine is a connected ribbon, as confirmed by the weak strike of the vertical letters/text.
I am currently going over many of my other historical figueres to see if I can find other coins with varities...

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 08:50:10 PM »
The strike is good, it's the die polishing. This is a very interesting error, equivalent to the 3 legged buffalo nickel.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2011, 02:18:26 AM »
after a second inspection it turns out mine is a connected ribbon, as confirmed by the weak strike of the vertical letters/text.
I am currently going over many of my other historical figueres to see if I can find other coins with varities...

While there are two distinct set of characteristics: connected-ribbon with faded text and glossy finish vs separated-ribbon with clear text and matte finish, the correlation is not 100%.  I do have one connected-ribbon coin with clear text and matte finish, so maybe it is not two separate varieties, but a gradual change over the entire production period with one variety at the beginning and the other variety at the end of the process?

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2011, 02:41:40 AM »
If you post your photos of the suspected progression, I can tell you.

Offline dobedo

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2011, 08:53:44 AM »
I agree. They are just in different progressive states of polishing, not distinct varieties.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2011, 08:58:24 AM »
OK, so we now believe that it is not varities but production caused. meaning that the newest produced would have clear text and what kind of ribbon? and the further the production the weaker text??

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2011, 02:17:53 PM »
If you post your photos of the suspected progression, I can tell you.
I'm photographing these coins by a well-lit bay window, so they show the glossy or matte finish better.  So here are the sequence of coins:
1.  Separated_ribbon with matte finish and relatively clear text, I have 4 of these.
2.  In-between coin: connected_ribbon with matte finish and relatively clear text, I only have one of this.
3.  Connected_ribbon with glossy finish and poorly formed text, I have plenty of these.

If poorly-formed text is the result of polishing which is also associated with glossy finish and clouded background field, then matte finish represents the early production stage and glossy finish represents the late production stage.  Another way of judging the production stage is that design with mirrored background is the early stage and design with clouded background is the later stage of production.  Maybe these matrices can be applied to other Chinese coins being discussed in CCF?

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2011, 02:56:00 PM »
this is really interesting! sadly i seem to own a latervstage, although the background seem mirroring, the text is worn...

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2011, 02:58:51 PM »
OK, so we now believe that it is not varities but production caused.

No, they are still varieties, but we're just trying to figure out some details about them.

I'm photographing these coins by a well-lit bay window, so they show the glossy or matte finish better.  So here are the sequence of coins:
1.  Separated_ribbon with matte finish and relatively clear text, I have 4 of these.
2.  In-between coin: connected_ribbon with matte finish and relatively clear text, I only have one of this.
3.  Connected_ribbon with glossy finish and poorly formed text, I have plenty of these.

At first glance it APPEARS that coins 2 and 3 could be from the same die that was polished to extend its service life, and that coin 1 is from a completely different die. However, if you look at her knees, you see that frosting appears in the later stages of suspected progression, which is not likely. Frosting can wear away, and it can be polished away, but it unlikely to be added later.

Her hand and the cuff of her robe are very similar on 1 and 2, but once again, there is more frosting on 2 than on 1, so it is unlikely they are the same die.

My conclusion is that all 3 coins come from 3 completely different dies, and there is no progression from one variety to the next.

If I examined these under a microscope, I would look for evidence that frosting was added later, but it would probably require some earlier die state specimens to confirm that possibility if it happened. But, I'm already 95% sure that frosting was not added later, and all 3 coins come from 3 different dies, and NOT a progression of the die states of 1 or 2 dies.

Great work, once again SANDAC!

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2011, 03:02:12 PM »
As a guess, I would say that coin 1 and coin 2 are possible restrikes. I think coin 1 is the most likely candidate for being a restrike. The sandy frosting texture, and the surface finish of the mirror portions look newer, and more like recent minting techniques to me. I'm guessing, of course, since I don't have the coins to examine in person, but I think coin 1 could be a restrike.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2011, 12:29:09 AM »
Her hand and the cuff of her robe are very similar on 1 and 2, but once again, there is more frosting on 2 than on 1, so it is unlikely they are the same die.
Given that frosting can be polish away, but not added in later die stage, I agree that picture 2 has more frosting in places where picture 1 are polished thus they are from two different dies.

I'm still wondering about the relationship between 2 and 3.  The frosting between the right knee and pedstal of the musical instrument is a different kind of frosting.  It was mirrored field in 2, but becomes frosted field in 3 as if the same process that polished away the text also mistakenly polished away the high area that meant to be a mirrored field.  Just asking a question, I simply don't know enough about the minting process.  Gosh, I learned so much from these conversation and I'm grateful that you are willing to share your knowledge with us.

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2011, 01:30:45 AM »
I'm quite sure there's no relationship between 2 and 3. Look at the lamp, the cuff of the robe, etc. They're different dies. Die 2 has much less metal on it than die 3. That means die 3 could not have come from die 2. It would actually be more likely that die 2 came from die 3, but the worn frosting on die 3 and fresh frosting on die 2 shows that to not be possible.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2011, 12:54:13 AM »
A day ago seller kerimo1826 posted a number of historical figure coins on Ebay.  Among them is a 1992 Cai Wenji:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-1992-5-YUAN-SILVER-COIN-PROOF-COA-/290579698698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7e6540a

This one is a "separated ribbon" variety, but interestingly the entire poem is clear and readable.  The flaw with the character "not" (third one from the bottom of the first line) is fully repaired.  If there is such thing as a restrike of 1992 Cai Wenji, this one is it.  I think this coin represents yet another variety of the 1992 Cai Wenji.

Offline dobedo

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2011, 08:44:21 AM »
A day ago seller kerimo1826 posted a number of historical figure coins on Ebay.  Among them is a 1992 Cai Wenji:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-1992-5-YUAN-SILVER-COIN-PROOF-COA-/290579698698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7e6540a

This one is a "separated ribbon" variety, but interestingly the entire poem is clear and readable.  The flaw with the character "not" (third one from the bottom of the first line) is fully repaired.  If there is such thing as a restrike of 1992 Cai Wenji, this one is it.  I think this coin represents yet another variety of the 1992 Cai Wenji.
It looks good. I'd vote for it being a restrike, or a very good fake. Let's go bid for it.

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2011, 12:43:59 PM »
Is anybody rich bidding on this? I hope not, because it could get expensive if two of us do it :)

Offline dobedo

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2011, 01:23:18 PM »
Is anybody rich bidding on this? I hope not, because it could get expensive if two of us do it :)
This is against Badon's policy of buying only highly graded coins. Not only it is raw, it's possibly a restrike/fake. Please leave it for us cheap collectors to bid on it :)

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2011, 01:42:25 PM »
dobedo: supported!! badon please leave the riff raff to us rats ;)

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2011, 02:02:54 PM »
I think the theory that it's a restrike is credible. And, as my research with the kublai khan supports, it is also probably much rarer than the originals, in terms of mintage rarity. The originals may be rarer overall, once grade rarity is factored in.

Either way, it's rare. Let's see what price it sells for :)

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2011, 01:42:17 AM »
Oh great, with a guy like badon bandying words like "rare/much rarer" around, us riff raff won't get much of a chance.  I think I'll toss in my bid early just to get my name on the also-ran list.  Whomever got the coin, please post a detailed picture.  Happy hunting!

Offline dragonfan

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2011, 06:16:47 AM »
From this series, 1992 Zheng Chenggong would be a key..? 20K mint (CoA = 50k), the one and only 99.9% 20g Ag, 33mm, standalone (not from a set of 4). Is my source right? Thanks

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2011, 09:39:02 AM »
From this series, 1992 Zheng Chenggong would be a key..? 20K mint (CoA = 50k), the one and only 99.9% 20g Ag, 33mm, standalone (not from a set of 4). Is my source right? Thanks

I have not heard about this coin in the historical figueres series... what is your source?

Offline r3globe

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2011, 09:53:33 AM »
According to my research Zheng Chenggong is not part of a series. World Coins does not report a mintage. Similar "independent" coins on the same year has a mintage of 7000. Somewhere on this forum,  I found the the actual mintage to be 10,155:

1992 Chinese Outstanding Historical Figures Zheng Chenggong 20g silver coin - 10155  (planned: 20000)

Here is the link:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=18.0;wap2

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2011, 10:05:10 AM »
according to my homemade overview in 1992 the series was:
Cai Wenjii, Hua Mulan (this one can get hot), Wang Zhaojun and Xia Zhuo


(se pdf)

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2011, 10:42:25 AM »
here is btw the aggregated population grading for the series...

Offline dragonfan

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2011, 06:51:37 PM »
My source is 'The Picture Catalog of the Commemorative Coin of Precious Metal
of Republic of China’ (The Picture Catalog is made by China Gold Coin Incorporation and published
by Southwestern University of Finance and Economics Press)

The simple edition (book 1991-1995) display 6 coins in the 'Chinese Outstanding Historical Figures
Gold and Silver Commemorative Coins (9th Set)'
1 gold and 5 silver - including the Zheng Chenggong figure.

However, litterally speaking, it may not be a piece of the silver coins series, but instead
a piece of the Outstanding Historical Figures series.

An interesting coin for those who like the theme, I think.
I don't own any from the silver series.

Offline dragonfan

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2011, 06:58:38 PM »
I don't own...unfortunately :)

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2011, 07:59:16 PM »
but do you own the zhen chenggong? con you show us photo? that would be highly intrtrsting!

Offline dragonfan

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2011, 08:27:27 PM »
I don't have picture, but you can see one on ebay. item # 170658275740

Offline Kamil

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2011, 02:52:36 PM »
This one seems to be a mix of both series:
- 5Yuan + 20g fine silver (999 instead of 900) in favor of the Historical`s
- single CoA made in the style of the Worldwide Famous Men

However, China Mint is listing it with Historical IX - so it`s supposed to belong to this set.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2011, 12:12:50 AM »
Well, the auction of the "restrike" Cai Wenji just concluded and it went for $285

http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-1992-5-YUAN-SILVER-COIN-PROOF-COA-/290579698698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7e6540a

Is that the high watermark for the raw coin of the Historical Figures series?  Badon may be right that restrike is more rare than the original in this case.  I thought the originals with the illegible characters are really error coins and therefore quite rare, but errors and varieties seem to be abundant during the late 80's and early 90's, so the restrike may in fact more rare.  I hope the winner would post a high resolution photo of that coin. 

Offline badon

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2011, 01:52:31 AM »
I seem to remember a very nice original kublai khan selling for a few dollars more. The high $200's seems to be the ceiling for these, with normally much lower. The pricing was all over on the coins that just went through the auctions today, so I guess that shows you how immature the market is. Pricing is unsettled.

Offline Espen83

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2018, 10:54:12 PM »
Forgive the necroposting. This is one that i just got. Referred to a few pages back as "in between" and supposedly the rarest of the varietes. http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2908.msg13537#msg13537 came from one of those 4 coin sets.
 

Offline skyline2go

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2018, 08:43:51 AM »
That is a rare version. I have two coins with mirror variation. I will upload the pictures.

Offline skyline2go

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2018, 10:37:27 AM »
Two coins with mirror variation..

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2018, 01:42:09 PM »
What I'm impressed about your two coins is the legibility of the last three characters (不見我) of the line closest to Cai Wenji.  Those are the clearest examples I know of.  The character 不 is almost always missing the last stroke (the diagonal downward stroke from center to right).  The character is also always "misspelled", even in your example--the extra dot above the 2nd stroke (the diagonal downward stroke from center to left) should not be there.  Very nice examples.

Offline skyline2go

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2018, 01:18:52 PM »
Really appreciate your figure and analysis. N48. Now these two coins look nicer to me.  :001_smile:

Offline koc

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2018, 03:39:01 AM »
Hi

Please look
Ngc 3924493-074 pf69 is this the rare Version?

Thank you

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Two varieties of 5 Yuan 1992 Cai Wenji Historical Figures?
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2018, 02:30:25 PM »
No, it is not a rare variety, but I should mention that all these varieties are relatively minor frosting variations and currently unrecognized by NGC or PCGS.   Such frosting variations are plentiful in Modern Chinese Coins.