WOW of the day

[Underbidder]

How 'bout them apples?

[SANDAC]

Of the 49 Kaiyuan temple in CC, 48 of them are labelled like the first picture.   The 2773051-001 is labelled differently as shown in the 2nd picture. 

[SANDAC]

Let me try it again:
Of the 49 Kaiyuan temple in CC, 48 of them are labelled like the first picture.   The 2773051-001 is labelled differently as shown in the 2nd picture. So is this NGC's way of labelling it as a plated coin? 

[badon]

I have noticed NGC has adjusted the labeling for a lot of coins, not just the pagodas. "SILVER" is much more clear than "S20G", don't you think?

I still have not seen any evidence to back claims that there are genuine plated pagodas. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen them (genuine ones). I've seen plenty of plated fakes though.

[poconopenn]

Genuine silver plated pogoda coin weighs 20 gm while genuine silver coin is 22.2 gm. When NGC graded first pogoda set, NGC had to weigh the coin before it labeled as 20 gm. Therefore, the first set graded by NGC should be plated coin. They are geniune silver sets in NGC slab labeled as 20 gm, but many of them are genuine plated set. NGC can not test the silver content of this coin since the silver plate of this coin is too thick to be tested accurately with x-ray. The set discussed here is defintely not a genuine silver set, it has an incorrect design. NGC should recall all pogoda sets and regrade them.  

[bonke]

Poconopenn

I have two pagoda sets.  Before submission to NGC, I weighed the medals (22+ grams).  NGC authenticated, graded and slabbed them as S20g.  At the time, I thought they were showing the net silver content in the label [the same way they show the net weight of various gold medals on the label].  Is this wrong?  I would welcome the opportunity to have NGC look at my pagoda sets again if I was not required to pay the various fees again.  Mark Bonke

[Panda Express]

I also own a graded 1984 Pagoda Set as well.   This set currently being discussed was the very set coming out from China several months ago that was in question regarding its authenticity before the set was graded by NGC. The set was sold raw on Ebay.  I pointed out that the back of slab of the Kaiyuan Temple Pagoda in question showed the outer edge of the road had a continuous border as noted in the red highlighted area.  All of the 1984 Kaiyuan Temple Pagoda images of the CC have a disrupted outer border of the road as noted on the zoomed in image.

[Underbidder]

I also own a graded 1984 Pagoda Set as well.   This set currently being discussed was the very set coming out from China several months ago that was in question regarding its authenticity before the set was graded by NGC. The set was sold raw on Ebay.  I pointed out that the back of slab of the Kaiyuan Temple Pagoda in question showed the outer edge of the road had a continuous border as noted in the red highlighted area.  All of the 1984 Kaiyuan Temple Pagoda images of the CC have a disrupted outer border of the road as noted on the zoomed in image.

"Authenticity?"

Is it a matter of authenticity, or a matter of which mint made medals are silver, vs silver plated, and whether NGC originally knew, or knows even now? I think both versions are "authentic", mint made medals.
Just one run was silver plated.  Just like the Goldfish, except with them its easy to tell since the design was different.

I'm with Poconopenn on this one.

[Underbidder]

It is quite possible, that many owners of these Pagodas, own silver plated medals,  even if graded, and don't know it.
And may have paid outrageously high prices for silver plate.

Just like the current confusion for Goldfish.

[bonke]

Panda Express

Thank you for the information.  I checked my sets.  The two Kaiyuan Pagoda reverses have the appropriate disrupted outer border.  I am relieved.  Thanks.  Mark Bonke

[Underbidder]

Panda Express

Thank you for the information.  I checked my sets.  The two Kaiyuan Pagoda reverses have the appropriate disrupted outer border.  I am relieved.  Thanks.  Mark Bonke

It is yet to be determined for certain, which is which.

[Panda Express]

"Authenticity?"

Is it a matter of authenticity, or a matter of which mint made medals are silver, vs silver plated, and whether NGC originally knew, or knows even now? I think both versions are "authentic", mint made medals.
Just one run was silver plated.  Just like the Goldfish, except with them its easy to tell since the design was different.

I'm with Poconopenn on this one.

I am also in agreement with Poconopenn.  The pagoda set in questioned definitely has a different design as compared the other graded pagoda sets.  Yes...I might have been too harsh to question the authenticity of this set.  I just wish NGC can give better clarification regarding these anomalies as mentioned on this blog.

Panda Express

Thank you for the information.  I checked my sets.  The two Kaiyuan Pagoda reverses have the appropriate disrupted outer border.  I am relieved.  Thanks.  Mark Bonke

You are Welcome! It's getting pretty late over here in this part of the world.  I will check on this blog later today.

[Obsidian]

All I know is with all the confusion surrounding these sets, it is clear why they have been selling so cheap.  I wouldn't touch this set for more than a couple grand unless your risk tolerance is extremely high.  I am happy to admit that I had a chance to purchase, at a somewhat lower price, the set that sold for such a high price.  Thank goodness I passed.  "Someday" this all may be a non-issue but from an investment standpoint, it could take an awfully long time for anything close to the 25k price range to come back.

[poconopenn]

All gold medals have a purity of 0.999, except 1979 Beijing scenery and 4th national games, with a purity of 0.916. It is my understanding that  the weight on the label is the weight of the coin, not silver or gold content. I do not believe that any fake silver pagoda set was made long time ago as some members in this forum claimed. At the end of 2008, the price of genuine pagoda set was less than $200. There was very limited profit for counterfeiter to make this set, especially, the genuine silver plated set made by Shanghai Mint was avaliable.  In addition, this set was not popular until members of CCF made a big push in later 2009 and earlier 2010. I believe that majority of the genuine silver sets are still in the hand of Japanese collectors, not in US. The mintage of 260 is questionable. The set packed in four-pouch sheet is most likely genuine silver plated as sellers inside China claimed.     

[Underbidder]

Poconopenn-

Do you believe that the Kaiyuan Temple ones with the disrupted border are proven non-plated? Could they be plated, from a different production run?

I think its known that the four-pouch sheet medals are plated, as are the four-pouch Goldfish /single fish/  1984 style.
Do you believe the wooden box Pagodas are plated too?  Just like the 1984 goldfish / single fish in the same box sent out in the same year are plated?

Tlhat might mean that most all the Pagodas out there, both now and earlier, and graded, are plated, Even both continuous border and non continuous border, and very few .90 are ever seen.