Author Topic: WOW of the day  (Read 660027 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2011, 08:05:16 PM »
The Fraud Act of 2006 is a British, not an American Law. The seller and buyer are in the USA, so how does that apply?

I am hoping mikew-actions will explain his feedback. If he doesn't than your interpretation of it strikes me as plausible. Personally. I want to know if these bids are the actions of one loose cannon, perhaps with several eBay monikers, or if these bad bids have a more widespread source.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Underbidder

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2011, 08:16:39 PM »
S2280 Stop Fraud Act- Sponsor : Barack Obama ! LOL! How do like them apples?  :laugh:
Never passed. I'll pull up the proper legal citation for you when I pull it up again.

Maybe you and I can agree on this: I'm realizing you have a much greater tolerance for this kind of thing than I do. Agreed?

Since it appears there is little interest in this subject except maybe from Panda Halves and Poconopenn,
I think I'll go do what I have to do and forego the alerts from now on. I have better things to spend my time on if that's the case.

"So move along people, keep it moving, nothing to see here."

Offline Panda Halves

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1273
  • Karma: 45
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2011, 08:33:50 PM »
Ok, what is going on? Did this auctions records get changed? How can the "seller" leave feedback (false) for t***n?  Does this now block mcc168's chance to leave negative feedback of a shill bid and fraud? It's time this gets stopped guys, and all guilty parties banned.  I can't believe eBay has allowed this to go on, with the posting of this false feedback just yesterday. I would have thought they would have terminated the account of t***n by now, someone reported them, right? And now of course this seller is suspect.  Unless a lot of accounts are hijacked, and false transactions and fraud is rampant.

Hey underbidder... If you were to bid my auction up artificially $800+ then back out so I could second chance it out I suppose it would be worth leaving you positive feedback.

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2011, 08:41:20 PM »
You are incorrect: I have no tolerance for fraud. I have spent not just hours, but weeks photographing counterfeit coins and building a web page that explains to collectors and buyers alike how to avoid fake coins (http://www.pandacollector.com/rogue.html). I have no tolerance for fake bids, either.

I think everyone is agreement that certain bids on eBay have inflated prices and caused harm to other bidders. The question is, who is responsible and what to do about it? I remain in favor of sending eBay a petition with as many signatures on it as possible to demand a change in their regulations for retracting bids. I would love to know if eBay's failure to enforce its own rules on what eBay defines as shill bids leaves it open to civil suits by defrauded bidders. I also would like to know how to go about getting eBay to terminate the memberships of anyone who has placed a false bid.

But I also have no interest in smearing the names of people or companies who haven't been proven to have done anything wrong. So far, in this discussion, I have seen several of the oldest and largest companies involved with Chinese Numismatics labeled or suggested to be conspirators in a shill bidding ring. The same is true of some smaller sellers. To state or imply these accusations in public without proof is something, to put it kindly, that I object to. So far, I have seen no evidence at all that any seller has engaged in fraud. If and when that turns up I will be delighted to ask eBay to ban them. Until then, there is plenty to do to rid the big auction site of crooked bidders.

Finally, since you mention it, S. 2280: the STOP FRAUD Act never got out of committee. It was never passed and is meaningless in bringing criminal charges against anyone.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com 

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2011, 02:46:57 AM »
Say, Underbidder, you threw that stuff about the British law in there just to yank my chain, didn't you? And I fell for it. Pity the poor moderator... well, I apologize if I got too wound up on the topic. None of us like what we are seeing, each in our own way.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Underbidder

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2011, 02:49:47 AM »
 :001_cool:

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2011, 11:01:22 AM »
OK, I have some bits and pieces of info about t**n from two sellers who have dealt with her. Mike explained that his cryptic feedback was to indicate she is a flake. She won the item and then afterward started pestering him about its condition. Finally she begged to be excused from buying the coin. He agreed but left the feedback to alert others. It never occurred to him that there could be anything sinister about her, just flaky. Mr Wang has written me that she actually paid for the coin she won from him. He has no sense of the controversy she has caused and he and I had a nice back-and-forth about Pandas. Anyway, make of it what you will, but those are the accounts of people who have dealt with t**n first-hand. For me it confirms my belief that the sellers haven't been part of any ring, but it leaves open the question of just what game the lady is playing.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline dobedo

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
  • Karma: -4
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2011, 01:17:47 PM »
Compulsive Flake Disorder (CFC)?

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2672
  • Karma: 227
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2011, 09:08:23 PM »
IMO, seller r_h_wang may not tell the completed story. Based on the following link, t***n has not made payment for 1991 gold panda set yet.
 
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=honest12345&completed=1&all=1&rows=50&sort=12&_rdc=1

t***n won Wang’s listing shortly (no more than 4 hours 12 minutes) after the item listed. The list requires paypal payment within 24 hours. If t***n had made payment via paypal or other methods already, it should be stated as “purchased on....” in the above eBay link.

The pictures of the 1991 set were removed by Wang shortly after the list ended, while other sold items by Wang still have pictures. Obviously, Wang does not want anybody to see the pictures of this set.
 
IMO, this is a pre-arranged “fake” sale to manipulate the price of modern Chinese coin market. The current fair value of 1991 BU gold panda set should be about $3,500-4,000. t***n has to have an above-average knowledge in modern Chinese coins in order to do the shill bids. It is very difficult to believe that t***n is willing to pay extra $1,000 for this set.

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2011, 10:43:40 PM »
IMO, seller r_h_wang may not tell the completed story. Based on the following link, t***n has not made payment for 1991 gold panda set yet.
 
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=honest12345&completed=1&all=1&rows=50&sort=12&_rdc=1


Verrry interesting...thanks. Maybe we are making some progress in getting to the bottom of this.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Underbidder

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2011, 10:51:30 PM »
Poconopenn- I wish they would listen to you. You are so right. Fully 90% of what I've been saying is being chosen to be ignored. Remember I told you this set was stolen from me in an auction I won, next thing I knew the set was listed again in  minutes, and this seller rhwang was the buyer. I even paid for the set, and the payment was returned ! All in minutes! And the first seller told me they had several of these, and they sold another 1991 to another buyer. They tried to get me to void my purchase under the guise of selling me two sets, but I sensed there was shinanagins going on.
I filed an eBay  report and bad feedback, and the seller filed retaliatory feedback that eBay negated. eBay investegated including looking at messages from the seller that were dishonest and agreed the deal was rotten but wouldn't pursue since my payment was returned.  I got exhausted bringing up the fact that there IS monkey business going on, and yes, it involves sellers.  Some very distinguished people don't want to see it, so they won't.

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2011, 11:07:46 PM »
Well, here is one seller who apparently didn't tell me the entire truth and who has a strong interest in the values of Chinese coins as demonstrated by his emails. And the same seller was involved in a shady deal as a buyer. I don't know if we hooked a minnow or a big fish, but something is on the line.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline Pandora

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Karma: 14
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2011, 12:16:29 AM »
If eBay will not act, then may be we can go to media. That will be more effective than bringing a lawsuit in the long run. How about some of those programs that are investigative like 20/20, etc...?

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2537
  • Karma: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2011, 12:20:46 AM »
If eBay will not act, then may be we can go to media. That will be more effective than bringing a lawsuit in the long run. How about some of those programs that are investigative like 20/20, etc...?

If we can demonstrate a BIG conspiracy on eBay, not just for Chinese coins, than the media might get interested. Does anyone know if this kind of thing happens with U.S. coins? That might interest the numismatic media, at least.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

KonaJim

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: WOW of the day
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2011, 12:27:09 AM »
I keep trying to tell everybody with little success that auctions have been rigged probably since the beginning of time.  It's like the stock market, some people believe it's fair.  If you want to believe that, fine, but don't be surprised when you find the things that are turning up.  Does it mean there are no "fair" sales, no, it means always be aware that where there is money there is fraud and manipulation.  I don't care what auction house we are talking, Christie's, Sotheby's which already settled a collusion charge and were fined heavily, or any other Auction House.  Caveat Emptor.  Buyer beware.