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pecus
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« on: August 11, 2009, 03:12:44 PM » |
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Has anyone ever seen fake copies of coins in this series [1 oz colored silver lunars, 1998-2009]? I just bought copies of the 1998 tiger, 1999 rabbit and 2000 dragon and, upon close inspection, find small differences between these and the other copy I have. It takes some work to find the differences, so the work put into these fakes was considerable if indeed they are fake. I'm wondering whether the coins were made at more than one mint, which might account for such tiny differences.
It's not details like the date or Chinese characters--these aspects of the coins seems identical. Also the weight and rim are identical. Rather it's things like smooth bricks in temple walls versus uneven bricks, or cloud lines that stretch to the rim of the coin or not.
Any help here?
Thanks, Pecus
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anwir
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 03:59:46 PM » |
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There are fakes but the ones I have seen differ in weight (about 26 gramms for the 1 oz coin)as they are made from silver plated alloy. Maybe you can post some scans here for a closer inspection but I would dare to say that if size and weigt are correct, they should be genuine  greetz anwir |
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pecus
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 07:21:02 PM » |
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You win some, lose some. I failed to notice that the seller I bought these coins from is on one of the "beware lists." So beware of DIGITALEGE.
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mcc168
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 10:29:53 PM » |
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Can you upload a few pictures of these fakes? That would help all others to look in the future. Thanks
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chinesecoinworks
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 06:57:15 AM » |
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You win some, lose some. I failed to notice that the seller I bought these coins from is on one of the "beware lists." So beware of DIGITALEGE.
Oh so he's in the blacklist already? I mentioned about it in my blog but didn't want to post his name. His Silver Panda Obverse looks very real. Even the Panda looks real except the furs and for some, the eyes. There's another one from Hong Kong to look out for. |
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poconopenn
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 12:58:38 PM » |
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pecus
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 01:42:15 PM » |
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Jeez. Just when I thought I had learned all the tricks to avoid being tricked!!
Thanks for the info...
BTW: the guy says he will refund my money!
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chinesecoinworks
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 04:04:37 PM » |
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They would usually do a full refund to avoid trouble.
Yes, digitalege has a mixture of genuine and fake
Hmm so it's OK to post which are the fake sellers?
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poconopenn
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 09:04:12 PM » |
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In my previous post, I indicated that this seller mixed genuine and fake in the listing. However, I just spent five hours to go through all items from this seller. I have concluded all items are fake. They are real high quality counterfeit. In my ebay Guide "How to spot a counterfeit silver panda" wrote more than three years ago, I provided a quick way to detect the fake by comparing the differences of reverse (temple of heaven) between genuine and fake. This new version of counterfeit is in a much higher quality, and die, most likely, was made with laser engraver. Therefore, the configuration and design of the fake coin surface was almost identical to the genuine coin. However, there is a limitation, a slight change of dimension (fineness and depth) usually occurred during the tracing. In the reverse of the fake coins, all posts and lines appear to be thicker. The eyes of panda and area of intersection of frosty and shining surface of the panda body usually will give away; the fine lines and points sometime missing in the fake coins. The counterfeiter still has not have the skill in treating the surface yet. Some frosty surfaces in genuine coin are shining in fake coin and some shining surfaces are frosty. In addition, all coins listed by this seller are extremely frosty. I have not aware the existence of such frosty coin except proof or 1990-1994 BU pandas. Here are two examples (1997 Panda and 2009 Ox) to demonstrate the difference between genuine and fake. http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Chinese-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-Yuan-1-OZ_W0QQitemZ180389421401QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a000c2159&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14The left eye is frosty. It should be shining for genuine coin. The shining hair under the left ear should be frosty similar to other part of the neck. http://cgi.ebay.com/China-2009-Silver-Coin-Year-of-the-Ox-10-Yuan_W0QQitemZ180395178595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a0063fa63&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14Again, the eye ball of ox should be shining, not frosty as show in the picture. The top ox should be off-white body with slightly frosty outlines for genuine coin. The fake coin in the picture has a frosty body and proof-like shining outlines. |
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 10:18:35 PM by poconopenn »
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pecus
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 03:46:33 AM » |
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I agree. It was the reverse side of the colored lunars I bought that seemed off--the lines were too clean, precise and shallow.
Thanks Poconopenn for all the work spelling out the details of these new--and seductive--fakes.
Pecus
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poconopenn
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2009, 01:10:47 PM » |
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Pecus
Please note that full refund, including shipping cost, will not allow you to leave feedback. This is the way for a scammer to keep 100% feedback. You should ask for return shipping cost. Most likely, this seller will not ask you to return the coins if you ask for return shipping cost. Newly revised Ebay policy will not allow seller to leave negative feedback, but allow to have follow-up on buyer's negative feedback.
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pecus
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 05:19:42 AM » |
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I wonder whether the coins in these pics are the ones actually being sold. I have the sense that more untrustworthy dealers are just posting pics of legit coins but sending fakes. The fact that buyers are listed as "private" doesn't instill confidence.
If and when modern Chinese coins really get popular, watch out!
Perhaps our forum moderator would be willing to sponsor a list of sellers who are reliable? We have lists of sellers to be wary of, why not sellers whose past practice has been honorable?
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poconopenn
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 02:30:46 PM » |
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Chinesecoinworks IMO, both coins are genuine. The plastic pouch for 1993 is OK. This coin is made at Shenyang Mint. The different embossed patten at left side is typical. Usually, the plastic sheet are folded at the end of master sheet and sealed with different patten. The extra plastic folded inside the pouch is clearly shown in the picture. However, I do have problem with 1992, and 1994 Shenzhen pouch, since Shenzhen Mint had not produced any coin before 1999. Both coins, IMO are genuine. http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1992-1oz-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-yuan_W0QQitemZ170361808477QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27aa5ae65d&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14http://cgi.ebay.com/1994-1oz-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-yuan_W0QQitemZ170361803846QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27aa5ad446&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14The pouch of this 1989 panda is also not original. http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1989-1oz-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-yuan_W0QQitemZ170371659940QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27aaf138a4&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14Many pouches of lunar gold coins are not original either. I also have problem with 2008 (Rat) and 2009 (Ox)lunar coins. Both coins are clearly conunterfeit and this seller knows. Both coins in this seller's listing have a BIN price of $24.99, at least $50 lower than the market value. This is definitely a very questionable seller. I will not be suprised if this seller post pictures of geniune coins and ship fake coin in a double sealed fake mint package, since this seller has many negative feedbacks of selling fake coins. |
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 03:28:16 PM by poconopenn »
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snowball
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2009, 09:32:11 AM » |
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images provided by pecus
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snowball
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2009, 09:33:37 AM » |
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fake colored tiger
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pecus
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2009, 10:09:10 AM » |
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These are the coins that I believe are fake.
What do other members think?
Pecus
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poconopenn
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2009, 08:51:40 PM » |
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According to the pictures, these three color lunar coins are definitely fake. 10 Yuan in those coins is out of position vs. genuine coins. The verticle lines of the brick wall should be clearly defined and all curved ends of roof should be sharper.
There are two stones missing at right bottom of the wall (reverse of rabbit)
In genuine dog coin, the boy,s hat at right side should make light contact to the left leg of the dog.
The genuine color lunar coin should weigh 1 oz with dimension 3.25mm x 40 mm.
Pecus,
If you do not have to return those coins to the seller, please ask local coin dealer to check out if they are silver coins or just plated.
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:15:02 PM by poconopenn »
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coolfire
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2009, 08:02:45 AM » |
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Hi Guys,
I am also an unfortunate customer of digitaljege. I won the bid for 3 coins on Sat, 31 Oct and good thing i have only paid for 1 coin, 1997 China Panda. Seller has not send to me yet.
Any thing i can do to cancel and get the seller to refund the $$ to me? I still have 2 bids won that i have not paid.
Please advise.
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