Author Topic: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)  (Read 11382 times)

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Offline pecus

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Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« on: August 11, 2009, 06:12:44 PM »
Has anyone ever seen fake copies of coins in this series [1 oz colored silver lunars, 1998-2009]?  I just bought copies of the 1998 tiger, 1999 rabbit and 2000 dragon and, upon close inspection, find small differences between these and the other copy I have.  It takes some work to find the differences, so the work put into these fakes was considerable if indeed they are fake.  I'm wondering whether the coins were made at more than one mint, which might account for such tiny differences.

It's not details like the date or Chinese characters--these aspects of the coins seems identical.  Also the weight and rim are identical.  Rather it's things like smooth bricks in temple walls versus uneven bricks, or cloud lines that stretch to the rim of the coin or not. 

Any help here?

Thanks, Pecus

Offline ?

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 06:59:46 PM »
There are fakes but the ones I have seen differ in weight (about 26 gramms for the 1 oz coin)as they are made from silver plated alloy. Maybe you can post some scans here for a closer inspection but I would dare to say that if size and weigt are correct, they should be genuine ;)

greetz anwir

Offline pecus

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 10:21:02 PM »
You win some, lose some.  I failed to notice that the seller I bought these coins from is on one of the "beware lists."  So beware of DIGITALEGE

Offline mcc168

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 01:29:53 AM »
Can you upload a few pictures of these fakes? That would help all others to look in the future. Thanks

Offline chinesecoinworks

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 09:57:15 AM »
You win some, lose some.  I failed to notice that the seller I bought these coins from is on one of the "beware lists."  So beware of DIGITALEGE

Oh so he's in the blacklist already? I mentioned about it in my blog but didn't want to post his name. His Silver Panda Obverse looks very real. Even the Panda looks real except the furs and for some, the eyes. There's another one from Hong Kong to look out for.


Offline pecus

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 04:42:15 PM »
Jeez.  Just when I thought I had learned all the tricks to avoid being tricked!!

Thanks for the info...

BTW:  the guy says he will refund my money!

Offline chinesecoinworks

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 07:04:37 PM »
They would usually do a full refund to avoid trouble.
Yes, digitalege has a mixture of genuine and fake
Hmm so it's OK to post which are the fake sellers?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 12:04:12 AM »
In my previous post, I indicated that this seller mixed genuine and fake in the listing. However, I just spent five hours to go through all items from this seller. I have concluded all items are fake. They are real high quality counterfeit. In my ebay Guide "How to spot a counterfeit silver panda" wrote more than three years ago, I provided a quick way to detect the fake by comparing the differences of reverse (temple of heaven) between genuine and fake. This new version of counterfeit is in a much higher quality, and die, most likely, was made with laser engraver. Therefore, the configuration and design of the fake coin surface was almost identical to the genuine coin. However, there is a limitation, a slight change of dimension (fineness and depth) usually occurred during the tracing. In the reverse of the fake coins, all posts and lines appear to be thicker.  The eyes of panda and area of intersection of frosty and shining surface of the panda body usually will give away; the fine lines and points sometime missing in the fake coins. The counterfeiter still has not have the skill in treating the surface yet. Some frosty surfaces in genuine coin are shining in fake coin and some shining surfaces are frosty. In addition, all coins listed by this seller are extremely frosty. I have not aware the existence of such frosty coin except proof or 1990-1994 BU pandas.  

Here are two examples (1997 Panda and 2009 Ox) to demonstrate the difference between genuine and fake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Chinese-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-Yuan-1-OZ_W0QQitemZ180389421401QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a000c2159&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

The left eye is frosty. It should be shining for genuine coin.  The shining hair under the left ear should be frosty similar to other part of the neck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/China-2009-Silver-Coin-Year-of-the-Ox-10-Yuan_W0QQitemZ180395178595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a0063fa63&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

Again, the eye ball of ox should be shining, not frosty as show in the picture. The top ox should be off-white body with slightly frosty outlines for genuine coin. The fake coin in the picture has a frosty body and proof-like shining outlines.

    
  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 01:18:35 AM by poconopenn »

Offline pecus

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 06:46:33 AM »
I agree.  It was the reverse side of the colored lunars I bought that seemed off--the lines were too clean, precise and shallow.

Thanks Poconopenn for all the work spelling out the details of these new--and seductive--fakes.

Pecus


Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2009, 04:10:47 PM »
Pecus

Please note that full refund, including shipping cost, will not allow you to leave feedback. This is the way for a scammer to keep 100% feedback. You should ask for return shipping cost. Most likely, this seller will not ask you to return the coins if you ask for return shipping cost. Newly revised Ebay policy will not allow seller to leave negative feedback, but allow to have follow-up on buyer's negative feedback.


Offline pecus

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 08:19:42 AM »
I wonder whether the coins in these pics are the ones actually being sold.  I have the sense that more untrustworthy dealers are just posting pics of legit coins but sending fakes.  The fact that buyers are listed as "private" doesn't instill confidence.

If and when modern Chinese coins really get popular, watch out!

Perhaps our forum moderator would be willing to sponsor a list of sellers who are reliable?  We have lists of sellers to be wary of, why not sellers whose past practice has been honorable? 

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 05:30:46 PM »
Chinesecoinworks

IMO, both coins are genuine. The plastic pouch for 1993 is OK. This coin is made at Shenyang Mint. The different embossed patten at left side is typical. Usually, the plastic sheet are folded at the end of master sheet and sealed with different patten. The extra plastic folded inside the pouch is clearly shown in the picture.

However, I do have problem with 1992, and 1994 Shenzhen pouch, since Shenzhen Mint had not produced any coin before 1999. Both coins, IMO are genuine.

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1992-1oz-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-yuan_W0QQitemZ170361808477QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27aa5ae65d&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/1994-1oz-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-yuan_W0QQitemZ170361803846QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27aa5ad446&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

The pouch of this 1989 panda is also not original.

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/1989-1oz-China-Silver-Panda-Coin-10-yuan_W0QQitemZ170371659940QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27aaf138a4&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

Many pouches of lunar gold coins are not original either.

I also have problem with 2008 (Rat) and 2009 (Ox)lunar coins. Both coins are clearly conunterfeit and this seller knows. Both coins in this seller's listing have a BIN price of $24.99, at least $50 lower than the market value.

This is definitely a very questionable seller. I will not be suprised if this seller post pictures of geniune coins and ship fake coin in a double sealed fake mint package, since this seller has many negative feedbacks of selling fake coins.

 


« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 06:28:16 PM by poconopenn »

Offline ?

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Re: Fake 1 oz colored silver lunar coins (1998-2009)
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 09:09:07 PM »
Chinescoinworks, please see this thread
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=245.0

In the meantime he has collected more reds - can't understand the bidders  :blink:

greetz anwir