Author Topic: 1989 3.3 oz silver god of war and wealth varieties discovered by reiboy of CCF  (Read 54849 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pandora

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Karma: 14
I think catfury meant all those differences are between the First Version and Second Version - meaning 2 varieties for Clear Claw.

Offline Pandora

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Karma: 14
Ok, changed it.  See, it's a Sub-type of Cloud, see? A Variety...   Never mind.  Gone.

And Oh! I neglected to specify the Metal! Silver, bronze... Any more?  Cupro-nickel?  Copper?  Badon?  Whatcha working with next, hmmm?  :biggrin:

There is this latest alloy China is using in Space Station. There was a rumor that they are going to strike all the panda coins in that alloy. It will never have white spots, never develop finger prints, luster will never change, will always grade 70, and not more than 1 variety can be produced. That would be a very interesting world, wouldn't it?  :biggrin:

Underbidder

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Hmm.. Sounds like you may just have something there, maybe they could call it... Oh, I dunno,...Platinum?  Badon, can your dies handle big platinum slugs?
 :thumbup:

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
The design is completely different for that reverse-mirror version. My "fake alarms" are beeping.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
In particular, the reverse mirror specimen appears to have a much lower quality of workmanship. If it's not a fake, then it must be a pattern or something else experimental like that. I don't think the mint would bother making a low quality version like that after production started with a much better design.

Offline catfury

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Karma: 0
From what I found out in the Chinese Post... the key version difference is the "Raised" or "Un-raised"  chinese text on top of the Reverse (the year in chinese)..  All "clouds" varieties are seemed to within the "Un-raised" text version (so far )

The mintage of the coin is about 2500... But the question is 2500 is the mintage total of BOTH versions or, there are actually restrikes and the mintage is not known..

I have no idea that if "first version (un-raised)" or the  "second version (Raised)" struck first... (they name it first and second but no one really knows the order..)

Offline Pandora

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Karma: 14
In particular, the reverse mirror specimen appears to have a much lower quality of workmanship. If it's not a fake, then it must be a pattern or something else experimental like that. I don't think the mint would bother making a low quality version like that after production started with a much better design.

Badon which one you are calling the reverse mirror? The First or Second Version? The First Version has the "un-raised" writing and that is the one we all have seen in US.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Notice the rims of the coins at the bottom of the reverse. On the reverse mirror version, they are not even complete. My opinion is that it is a fake, done as a poor copy of the genuine coin.

One thing it does reveal is that some of the odd details in the mirror around the claw is actually dragon whisker (or whatever that is) that was partly polished out on the normal coins. That is the only clue that makes me think it might be an early pattern or test piece, before production was approved, and higher quality dies were made.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Badon which one you are calling the reverse mirror? The First or Second Version? The First Version has the "un-raised" writing and that is the one we all have seen in US.

The one I'm calling the "reverse mirror" is the one that's not like the ones we're used to. I believe it is 90% chance to be fake, and 10% chance to be a pattern.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
The mintage of the coin is about 2500... But the question is 2500 is the mintage total of BOTH versions or, there are actually restrikes and the mintage is not known..

So far, I have found no evidence that the coins have been restruck. All the specimens I have seen have come from only 3 dies, which correspond to the 3 known varieties of clear claw, clouded claw, and super clouded claw.

If I found a 4th die, then I could examine it for evidence that it was made at a later date. So far, nothing. I have no reason to believe that the god of war & wealth was restruck.

There is an actual mintage figure of 2430 out there, which implies that nearly the entire mintage was struck from the beginning. The mint policy for restrikes is that they cannot exceed the planned mintage. So, if restrikes WERE made, there would only be 70 of them, and they would probably be much more valuable than the originals.

Underbidder

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
God I love it when all these "rare" God of Wealth coin aficionados get excited, we could go on to a record number of uninterrupted posts here! Must be close to twenty now?

Offline Pandora

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Karma: 14
God I love it when all these "rare" God of Wealth coin aficionados get excited, we could go on to a record number of uninterrupted posts here! Must be close to twenty now?

You have this knack of using these rare words like "cumulous",  "aficionados" :-)

Offline catfury

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Karma: 0
The chance of "Raised" writings being a fake is unlikely, here is another picture to show the major difference.. not only the text on top, but the Big text in middle of the coin is totally reversed (mirrored).. me thinks.

i have more pictures..

again the original post was in 2008

Offline Pandora

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
  • Karma: 14
So far, I have found no evidence that the coins have been restruck. All the specimens I have seen have come from only 3 dies, which correspond to the 3 known varieties of clear claw, clouded claw, and super clouded claw.

If I found a 4th die, then I could examine it for evidence that it was made at a later date. So far, nothing. I have no reason to believe that the god of war & wealth was restruck.

There is an actual mintage figure of 2430 out there, which implies that nearly the entire mintage was struck from the beginning. The mint policy for restrikes is that they cannot exceed the planned mintage. So, if restrikes WERE made, there would only be 70 of them, and they would probably be much more valuable than the originals.

The Second version does look like poorly struck. Catfury, how old was the post you discovered? If it was years ago, chances of fake are small...

Underbidder

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Hey this dumb high tech ipadder thingy has a mind of it's own dang it!  
And hey, aren't rare words more valuable?  Heck, I'll "coin" some of my own, then.  :biggrin:
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 01:21:52 AM by Underbidder »