Author Topic: 1989 3.3 oz silver god of war and wealth varieties discovered by reiboy of CCF  (Read 52281 times)

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Offline Pandora

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I have all 3 varieties, and I am in agreement with Badon. Most of the coins in market last few months I have seen - came from 2 original sources suggesting the hoarding.

Offline badon

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I think Pandora is cornering the market on super clouded claw coins :)

Offline Pandora

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I wish! They are very very difficult to find! :-)

Offline badon

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So, if they're up to about $5000 each, you only need to buy 10 and the job is done :)

Offline Pandora

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Badon, only you have the resources to find and fund the cornering of this coin. I am happy with 1 each. :-)

Offline badon

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No comment :)

Offline shuttlespace

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3.3 oz is not a large sized coin. There are 11,000 minted for 1987 5oz silver panda and how many varies have we found out so far?
Again, the price for this medal and god of longetivity is much lower in China compared with price over here in US market. There's a reason why people only go after the legal tender but not the medals because theoretically China mint could struck them any time they want and Shanghai Mint, where these two medals were made, has a history of doing that.

Offline r3globe

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I am new to this field but I have been following this story from the beginning. I do respect everyone's opinion on this. Badon was able to support his opinion with detailed explanataions about the minting process. The latest attempt to refute it is not supported by any detailed explanations and/or specific examples /precendences. I would be very interested in more explanations, other that they are available now. Recent rise in their price will definitely explain why they are coming out of the woodwork.

Offline badon

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3.3 oz is not a large sized coin.

"Standard" fine precious metals trade size is 1 troy oz. Anything larger is "large" and anything smaller is "small".

There are 11,000 minted for 1987 5oz silver panda and how many varies have we found out so far?

There are 800 minted for 1996 12 oz silver panda, and there are 2 known varieties for it, with exactly the same type of frosting variance as we see in the 1989 god of war & wealth claw varieties. I'm sure if someone did the research, varieties could be found for the 1987 5 oz silver panda too, though I admit varieties as interesting as the clear claw, clouded claw, and super clouded claw are quite rare.

Again, the price for this medal and god of longetivity is much lower in China compared with price over here in US market.

Who in China is selling them for cheaper than in the US market? If you know, I'm buying. The big dealers I normally contact when I need something hard to find aren't selling. They tell me that they are buying because their top customers are asking for medals, and they don't have any in stock.

There's a reason why people only go after the legal tender but not the medals because theoretically China mint could struck them any time they want and Shanghai Mint, where these two medals were made, has a history of doing that.

There are known restrikes for some coins. So far, whenever we've looked, we've been able to distinguish them from the originals. It's REALLY hard to do the same thing twice, even when you're the master. It's no wonder fakes are still detectable, even to this day with all the technology out there. The old fashioned minting technology can't be duplicated perfectly, even when done officially by the same mint.

In any case, this practice has stopped because it hurts their business to do that. So far, the only coins known to have been restruck are all for German customers, and medals are not on the list.

Americans make an enthusiastic distinction between medals and legal tender coins because America's history does not include devaluation of currency, because the history is so short. But, even in America, if you look in the right places, you can find instances where medals are quite important and valuable.

For example, unofficial territorial gold, colonial coinage, and even copies of foreign coinage, can all be extraordinarily valuable to American collectors - all of those were minted at a time when both official and unofficial precious metal currency was accepted amongst American citizens. The only things that aren't valuable is devalued paper money.

America has very little experience with devaluation of paper money. China invented paper and paper money, so it's no surprise that they're ahead of the USA on this. At first the medals were neglected, but now they value the medals just like I said they would (I predicted this).

Official medals of China are where the hot money is right now. There are other hot coins, of course, but medals are an entire undervalued sector where people are making a ton of money. You can rely on your experience with the (mostly) very different American market, or you can trust me that I'm going to steer you in the right direction.

There's a lot of good reasons to believe what I'm telling you.

Offline Pandora

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The 68 looks much better in photos.

Lets vote:

Within 1 month:

A. Both will sell - 68 will sell first.
B. Both will sell - 69 will sell first.
C. Only 68 will sell.
D. Only 69 will sell.

Offline badon

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Better look closer, I think the 68 is truly a 68 because it looks like it has a white spot above the ribbons. The other 69 one looks dirty for some reason, and I'm sure it wasn't conserved. It got a 69 though, and I don't see any white spots.

Offline Pandora

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Yes, that is why it is 68 and the price I think reflects it. But overall - the mirror surface, frosting and fields look much vibrant in 68.

Offline badon

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The 68 looks much better in photos.

Lets vote:

Within 1 month:

A. Both will sell - 68 will sell first.
B. Both will sell - 69 will sell first.
C. Only 68 will sell.
D. Only 69 will sell.

That's a tough call. The 68 looks nice, but has a white spot, and is also much cheaper. The 69 doesn't look so nice in photos, but probably looks better in person, has no white spots, and cost a LOT more.

I'd say they have equal chances of selling. The 68 is quite cheap compared to the 69, and nobody else is willing to part with their 69's...unless Pandora is still selling - Is yours available still? I think you priced it very cheaply, around $4500 if I remember correctly.

Offline Pandora

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After your advise, I thought twice about it, and decided to keep the 69 for a while. I was happy with the $4,800 asking price though. I think $6,400 is quite high at this time. May be he is charging more for the pink/purple toning.

Offline badon

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I think he's charging more because there's no competition, or he just wants to keep the coin. It'll be worth more later, for sure. He probably saw the other coin get listed, and decided to one-up him.

When the market heats up later in the year, you'll see people paying top prices again just to get the coin. I don't know if there's enough buyers to get $6450 price tag out of a coin that was worth $160 a year ago, but it's not really all that unusual if it does sell at that price. It's very, very rare.

The 1995 micro date panda was about the same price at $100 only a few months ago. Now, it's over $2000. So huge price gains are possible, and they happen pretty often. Plus, the super clouded claw is a lot rarer than the 1995 micro date panda too.

It will be interesting to see what happens.