Author Topic: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??  (Read 142773 times)

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Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2012, 06:03:05 PM »
Here are a couple more pictures I took since I do not know when I will be able to get better ones. one in OMP and one upclose of the graded one, note the reddish look is only from the lighting as the graded coin was NSC conserved and the omp has only some very slight toning near the edge. Still not very good pictures but I hope it helps.

joeman

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2012, 09:51:41 PM »
exact same OMP as my sheet..

Online Hippanda

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2012, 10:16:45 PM »
Ok, I'm confused but maybe I just missed something...
Why WOULDN'T it be the same?  
Joe, it was from you, right? Weren't you the source for all these?

Bought in Beijing?

Kept in your safe together since?

Just trying to get things straight. Correct anything thats wrong please...

Edit:
No I see I may have assumed the above, actually you wrote:

"Those 2 sheets have been locked up in a vault since 2003 when a close friend of mine bought them in Peking"

Was it your vault they have been locked up since 2003?  Have you personally had custody of these since 2003?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 10:23:17 PM by Hipanda »
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2012, 10:32:53 PM »
Joeman,

Up to now, all pictures posted have too much reflections and they are not show  clear 3 dimenional details. Since your are long time dealer, you ought to be able to post a better picture. Please post pictures of both sides with a clear details of the device. Thanks.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2012, 10:38:04 PM »
exact same OMP as my sheet..

Joeman,

As we have been saying, "don't take this personal". We are just trying to verify its authenticity. Don't you want the same?  I guarantee you that you will not find a better "authenticator" than poconopenn - anywhere !!

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2012, 10:43:50 PM »
By my count there are 30, possibly 31 small D being discussed in this thread:
*  joeman has 2 sheets, one sheet is still intact, and the other sheet is graded by NGC and is 2780533-021 to -030
*  silverstar1 has 8 graded by NGC, 3689048-001 to -008.  He has at least one more in OMP which he took a picture of and posted it early this evening.  I saw the edge of another capsule, so maybe silverstar1 has 2 still in OMP.

*  NBM has one in OMP

joeman just confirmed that his OMP matches silverstar1's.

Online Hippanda

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2012, 11:12:05 PM »
OK, I re-read the postings and see where there is apparently more than one source for the coins shown. Source is a valid question for these newly announced arrivals, it helps fill in the inevitable questions.

Joeman had two sheets, from Beijing, and they have reportedly been in a vault, (not sure who's ? ) since then?

And then there is Silverstar's, and it would be nice to know the source, timing, and custody of his too, if you can be so nice.  Where did your coins come from, and when?

There is so much mystery surrounding the 2001-D Silver and Gold, it would be very helpful to all collectors and members of all forums to have as many questions answered and information filled in as possible. After all, its missing history, in a time of great change in both China and numismatics.

Please help fill in the missing info, its much appreciated.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

joeman

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2012, 11:20:34 PM »
Joeman,

Up to now, all pictures posted have too much reflections and they are not show  clear 3 dimenional details. Since your are long time dealer, you ought to be able to post a better picture. Please post pictures of both sides with a clear details of the device. Thanks.
No dealer my  friend:) just a collector who sells a few coins to help subsidize a very expensive habit. OH and by the way  that coin selling and grading hobbie many times does not do much to subsidize anything :), the omp sheet is in the bank vault ,but sheet #1 I have a few graded coins around and the opened up mint sheet from the first 10 graded , more than happy over the weekend to pop off some pics and post regards

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2012, 11:28:35 PM »
By my count there are 30, possibly 31 small D being discussed in this thread:
*  joeman has 2 sheets, one sheet is still intact, and the other sheet is graded by NGC and is 2780533-021 to -030
*  silverstar1 has 8 graded by NGC, 3689048-001 to -008.  He has at least one more in OMP which he took a picture of and posted it early this evening.  I saw the edge of another capsule, so maybe silverstar1 has 2 still in OMP.

*  NBM has one in OMP

joeman just confirmed that his OMP matches silverstar1's.

SANDAC:

You constantly mentioned that you dived into your database, looking for the tiniest of details and variations from different coins. So, I assume you are somewhat of a data-miner. Don't you find it odd that 2001-D, with 33,000 mintage, not a single "small-D" has been graded by NGC - notice even joeman's batch (2780533-021 to -030) did not have the "small-D" designation by NGC. Yes, they are of the same variety, but apparently NGC didn't come up with the "small-D" idea until recently. (I'm guessing silverstar1's batch is quite recent with that cert#)  Even by your own admission that you looked over 800 photos in "your database" but didn't find one "small-D", no?  If this is truly one "new variety" from some unknown Mint of China, it would benefit silverstar1, joeman, NBM or whoever owns these to validate its authenticity, don't you think? But according to joeman, his batch and one sheet, maybe even silverstars' batch came from him originally (?), and these have been "locked up in a vault". So, some China Mint just minted those 30+ coins? On the other hand, if a large quantity of this "small-D" variety was minted, where are the rest of them?

Inquisitive mind wants to know.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 11:37:01 PM by dynamike51 »

joeman

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2012, 11:37:22 PM »
Ok, I'm confused but maybe I just missed something...
Why WOULDN'T it be the same?  
Joe, it was from you, right? Weren't you the source for all these?

Bought in Beijing?

Kept in your safe together since?

Just trying to get things straight. Correct anything thats wrong please...

Edit:
No I see I may have assumed the above, actually you wrote:

"Those 2 sheets have been locked up in a vault since 2003 when a close friend of mine bought them in Peking"

Was it your vault they have been locked up since 2003?  Have you personally had custody of these since 2003?
you are a very curious fellow:)    I will just say I know for a fact:) where those 2 sheets where bought from in 2003 and where they have been since 2003, and also where they have been since I acquired them ...... trust me when I tell you I take no offense ,we probably are going to get ncs/ngc a chance to re verify authenticity:) on some as I want them labelled correctly,

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2012, 11:40:55 PM »
OK here is one more photo I had a friend take probably not much better, sorry but this is the best I can do feel free to delete these if they are just wasting bandwidth. And just to clear any confusion I did NOT get these from Joeman mine are from a different source fairly recently, and I do not know about NBMs source. There is also another side by side comparison on SS from another member I believe did get it from Joeman .And yes I still have 2 in OMP. So while I do think this is a very scarce variety there is other examples out there and in my opinion this is 100% legitimate and genuine variety. I have been in the jewelry and PM  business for over 20 years and coins for over 8 years , I have seen all kinds of plated metals and this is definatly not a plated silver coin . To me it would be extremely unlikely that a counterfeiter would produce such a high quality coin out of real silver on a 2001d (which is not a really rare or valuable coin in the first place) in Shenzhen omp with mintslip, just to sell a few 100 or however many exist most probably still in China, and then to have them fool the highly experienced graders at NCS and NGC in several instances. I do understand why people here, very experienced and long time experts in the field of MCC would be skeptical and want some solid proof but at some point we just have to accept the facts. I will be listing one of these on ebay probably tomorrow along with some others and for anyone who wants to get to the bottom of this and see it in person please bid and bid high, LOL , and if you win it feel free to cut it in half , melt it , douse it with acid , XRF or whatever you would like until your heart is content. I just hope I do not get any emails on my auction how this coin is fake because they read it on CCf ect. ,. I really do appreciate all the comments and info on this thread and sorry if I have posted to much here. I wish all of you the best!

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2012, 11:51:08 PM »
SANDAC:

You constantly mentioned that you dived into your database, looking for the tiniest of details and variations from different coins. So, I assume you are somewhat of a data-miner. Don't you find it odd that 2001-D, with 33,000 mintage, not a single "small-D" has been graded by NGC - notice even joeman's batch (2780533-021 to -030) did not have the "small-D" designation by NGC. Yes, they are of the same variety, but apparently NGC didn't come up with the "small-D" idea until recently. (I'm guessing silverstar1's batch is quite recent with that cert#)  Even by your own admission that you looked over 800 photos in "your database" but didn't find one "small-D", no?  If this is truly one "new variety" from some unknown Mint of China, it would benefit silverstar1, joeman, NBM or whoever owns these to validate its authenticity, don't you think? But according to joeman, his batch and one sheet, maybe even silverstars' batch came from him originally (?), and these have been "locked up in a vault". So, some China Mint just minted those 30+ coins? On the other hand, if a large quantity of this "small-D" variety was minted, where are the rest of them?

Inquisitive mind wants to know.
Hi Dynamike , it may have been a mistake but just to clarify these are not from an unknown mint they are from Shenzhen Guobao according to the OMP .

joeman

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2012, 11:54:12 PM »
SANDAC:

You constantly mentioned that you dived into your database, looking for the tiniest of details and variations from different coins. So, I assume you are somewhat of a data-miner. Don't you find it odd that 2001-D, with 33,000 mintage, not a single "small-D" has been graded by NGC - notice even joeman's batch (2780533-021 to -030) did not have the "small-D" designation by NGC. Yes, they are of the same variety, but apparently NGC didn't come up with the "small-D" idea until recently. (I'm guessing silverstar1's batch is quite recent with that cert#)  Even by your own admission that you looked over 800 photos in "your database" but didn't find one "small-D", no?  If this is truly one "new variety" from some unknown Mint of China, it would benefit silverstar1, joeman, NBM or whoever owns these to validate its authenticity, don't you think? But according to joeman, his batch and one sheet, maybe even silverstars' batch came from him originally (?), and these have been "locked up in a vault". So, some China Mint just minted those 30+ coins? On the other hand, if a large quantity of this "small-D" variety was minted, where are the rest of them?

Inquisitive mind wants to know.
  shenzhen guobao unknown:) news to me

joeman

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2012, 11:54:50 PM »
trying to get some pics up

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2012, 11:57:32 PM »
   shenzhen guobao unknown:) news to me

Thanks. I stand corrected.