Author Topic: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??  (Read 140423 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 11:37:22 PM »
Silverstar1

Welcome to the forum.

Please post a high resolution picture of your NGC small date coin here. The pictures at NGC site is not clear and can not see 3 dimensional details. The D is not just only small, but also about 2mm higher than the large date.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2012, 12:20:24 AM »
Hey Thanks! I do not take very good pictures ,sorry. Yep the biggest difference seems to be the date very distinctive, The sm d measures appx 2.4 mm High and the LG appx 3mm, and looking for the distinction , looking at where the bamboo on the left side meets the D is very different easily seen. Some other subtle differences for sure ,very nicely struck coins.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 01:33:16 PM »
I think it is worthwhile for you to locate a good digital camera with macro zoom and post a few detailed pictures.  poconopenn has one of the best eyes around and he can pick out details that none of us can.  It would be an tremendous education for you and us.  You are already protected by NGC's guarantee from loss,  more details, discussion and confirmation can only sent value of this coin higher.  Detailed photo give you lots of upside and no downside.  I know if poconopenn took an interest in whatever I have, I would spare no efforts to satisfy him.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 02:47:38 PM »
Thanks SANDAC , I have a friend with a better camera I will see what I can do. I am not sure how to upload a photo here but I could post it on SS , I will have to see when my friend could help.  I am not sure why I would need Guarantee from loss protection ? Is Poconopenn someone that really knows alot about these?

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2012, 03:14:18 PM »
To upload one or more pictures:  click "Preview" (next to "Post"), below the text box in preview is a link to "Additional Options..." which will open up a box for "Attach:".  Enter your filename of picture there.  If you need to upload more, click "(more attachments)" to the right of box.  

poconopenn is an real expert in fake detection.  You can learn a lot by reading his previous posts (over 1000) on this forum.  I mentioned NGC guarantee only because if the coin turned out as a fake during the course of the discussion, you can get your money back from NGC so you are covered on the downside.

Offline NBM

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2012, 03:39:08 PM »

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2012, 03:43:38 PM »
Yep this picture here looks like the SM dt to me.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2012, 03:44:59 PM »

Is Poconopenn someone that really knows alot about these?



LOL ....  :lol:  Silverstar1, given that you are new here, you're forgiven.   Spend more time here, and you will learn who is the "guru".   N30

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2012, 04:08:22 PM »
Thank you for the picture NBM.  May I ask you to tell us about the pedigree of this coin?  I'm still puzzled over why I can't find a single small D out of the 886 random NGC photos.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2012, 04:22:50 PM »
The discoverers of this Small Date coin should not be upset that members on CCF want to carefully scrutinize newly discovered varieties, since fakes have recently been found that have passed through NGC successfully. It has been a recent topic of some interest here. Nothing personal.

If you have had them in your possession since 2003 that is one huge support
for their authenticity, as I wrote. But it is not 100% conclusive, yet, on its own.
Better photos are still helpful, and even then I have seen likely fakes that are still questionable with great photos and even in person under loops. The sad fact is counterfeit silver Pandas are famous, and the makers are using better technology every year and are now so close to the originals we may  be very near the time they pass more often than not.
Poconopenn is likely the best judge IMO, and there are specific clues he looks for. Soon counterfeiters will eliminate even those signature flaws.
The latest photo shows at least three areas of significant difference.
Plus I'd like to see a better photo of the whole Mint wrap, there is an area of interest there too.

It may very well be that these coins where made differently from the Large Date in many ways.
If so there may be a very interesting story behind this and these coins quite valuable. If we are anything, we are optimistic but reserved and curious. Your original post asked us for our opinions, and that is what is developing.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline NBM

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2012, 04:23:43 PM »
Thank you for the picture NBM.  May I ask you to tell us about the pedigree of this coin?  I'm still puzzled over why I can't find a single small D out of the 886 random NGC photos.
I will PM you. ;-)

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2012, 05:04:30 PM »
The discoverers of this Small Date coin should not be upset that members on CCF want to carefully scrutinize newly discovered varieties, since fakes have recently been found that have passed through NGC successfully. It has been a recent topic of some interest here. Nothing personal.

If you have had them in your possession since 2003 that is one huge support
for their authenticity, as I wrote. But it is not 100% conclusive, yet, on its own.
Better photos are still helpful, and even then I have seen likely fakes that are still questionable with great photos and even in person under loops. The sad fact is counterfeit silver Pandas are famous, and the makers are using better technology every year and are now so close to the originals we may  be very near the time they pass more often than not.
Poconopenn is likely the best judge IMO, and there are specific clues he looks for. Soon counterfeiters will eliminate even those signature flaws.
The latest photo shows at least three areas of significant difference.
Plus I'd like to see a better photo of the whole Mint wrap, there is an area of interest there too.

It may very well be that these coins where made differently from the Large Date in many ways.
If so there may be a very interesting story behind this and these coins quite valuable. If we are anything, we are optimistic but reserved and curious. Your original post asked us for our opinions, and that is what is developing.

HI , Hipanda, if this is directed at me , I am not upset at all or taking it personal , I really appreciate all the info and input here , After looking at these over and over again and with loops and comparing to the regular d, and the 2001 and 2002 , I am still not seeing anything that would lead me to believe they are fake or non silver everything seems correct from the omp, mint slip , slight typical tarnish on the outer edge( exactly the same as others of this year) I would love to get some of the expert opinions here , but I also have some experience myself. This is alot more interesting than what I first thought.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2012, 05:05:49 PM »
I will PM you. ;-)
Yes Thanks for the picture , would you care to share any info with the forum?

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2012, 05:12:17 PM »
HI , Hipanda, if this is directed at me , I am not upset at all or taking it personal , I really appreciate all the info and input here , After looking at these over and over again and with loops and comparing to the regular d, and the 2001 and 2002 , I am still not seeing anything that would lead me to believe they are fake or non silver everything seems correct from the omp, mint slip , slight typical tarnish on the outer edge( exactly the same as others of this year) I would love to get some of the expert opinions here , but I also have some experience myself. This is alot more interesting than what I first thought.

Silverstar1:

Same here. I hope you didn't take whatever I said as a personal attack - it wasn't meant to be that. I am just skeptical by nature.  :crying: If a so-called "new variety" pops up out of nowhere, I instinctively question its authenticity.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2012, 05:18:22 PM »
Silverstar1:

Same here. I hope you didn't take whatever I said as a personal attack - it wasn't meant to be that. I am just skeptical by nature.  :crying: If a so-called "new variety" pops up out of nowhere, I instinctively question its authenticity.
Oh Yes I totally understand it is only a smart thing to do.