Author Topic: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs  (Read 16210 times)

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Offline pandamania

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The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« on: February 13, 2011, 09:49:36 AM »
The colored proofs issued in 1997, 98 and 99 are a very interesting and popular subset of pandas. The three one ounce coins have a total authorized mintage of 100,000 per year (300,000 total) and the half ounce mintages are also 100,000 per year. This means that the one ounce colored panda total is greater than the combined authorized mintages for all other proof silver pandas (12 coins 199,000 total authorized).

So all other things being equal we should see 3 colorized one ounce proof for sale for every 2 non colorized proofs, right? For some reason it hasn`t been that way for a long time. At this moment there are 6 colored one ouncers available (2 ungraded and 4 graded) and 44 (24 ungraded and 20 graded) total non colored proofs. What gives? Are the actual mintages of the colored proofs significantly less than the authorized amount or are these coins seriously hoarded because f their unique colorizing feature? Yet prices don`t seem to reflect this lack of market supply.

There are several interesting non traditional features about these coins They are the only colored one ounce and one half ounce proof/uncirculated pandas. They are the only proof years which are identical in design to their twin uncirculated varieties not to contain the "P" (the coloring apparently serves as the differentiating factor). They are also the only proof/uncirculated silver pandas (ounce and half ounce) until 2006 not to be individually double sealed.

Which leads to the next question of why there were no double seals. Were the coins struck in proof quality at the mint and then sent to Europe (Germany?) the the colorization? Who actually colored the coins and what was the process used? If the coins were exported for coloring were they then distributed from that site without being returned to the mint for the soft outer seal?

And while we`re at it why would the mint have decided not to produce a half once in 1999 to complete the set?

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 11:59:03 AM »
High prices bring coins onto the market. It's not possible to arrive at accurate population statistics by directly comparing sales of coins with high collector value to coins with modest collector value. The higher priced coins trade hands and are offered for sale far more frequently than the more common lower priced ones. Because the colored silver proofs are much commoner and also less expensive than the earlier plain silver ones other thing are not equal in this situation.

I believe the Mint gave up on the 1/2 oz. size after 1998 because, like most 1/2 oz. coins, it didn't sell well. 1998 was the last year the Chinese Mint produced 1/2 oz. silver Pandas.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline pandamania

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 02:49:53 PM »
Peter,

Your valuable input is always appreciated.

I agree that in a normal supply/demand market atmosphere higher prices bring out more supply. However, I believe we are dealing in an atypical market at this time with regard to modern Chinese Coins (pandas in particular) where supply has been completely overwhelmed by demand and there seems to be a continuous under supply of colored panda proofs.

For example, I have tracked both proof and uncirculated silver pandas in Ebay dealer inventory (ungraded buy-it-now proof and BU pandas) for some tome now and I think the results are interesting.

As of yesterday there were 3 ungraded 1987-1999 proofs offered (zero 1997-1999). A year ago there were 22 (zero 1997-1999) and 2 years ago 25 (one 1997-1999). Even adding the 11 graded pandas (4 fairly recent 1997-1999 listings) there are far fewer now then there were just ungraded proofs (I don`t have the number of graded coins from 1 & 2 years ago). Regarding the more common BU 1989-2000 coins the numbers are 10, 33 and 66 for those respective periods. This decline in supply has occurred in the headwind of significantly higher prices for both proofs and BUs.

Aside from the recent 1997-1999 graded listings the colored proofs have never been plentiful in dealer inventories. Based on your experience are there additional factors to consider as to why this is the case?

Regards,

Pandamania

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 04:04:14 PM »
I think the supply of many Panda coins (like the colored proofs) has been absorbed by collectors and investors over the last five years. There are quite a few coins and medals that only trade once or twice a year now, or even less often than that. New sources of information, like this Forum, have contributed to increased interest and demand for Pandas and other Chinese coins. The wider exposure of buyers in China to Panda coins, as relatively fewer are exported, could be a factor, too.

I seriously wonder if we may be experiencing the end of the "good old days" of cheap Panda coins, right now. It will not take much extra demand, or diminished supply, to set in motion a rapid revaluation to higher levels as we saw with Munich silver Pandas in December/January. As a group those coins went up in price by three times in under 30 days. That abrupt price movement struck me as a potential foreshock of a much bigger future event. Of course, the only thing that's guaranteed is the pleasure that comes from collecting and learning about a fascinating group of coins.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com



  

Offline pandamania

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 04:30:52 PM »
I think that`s what the market is telling us.

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2011, 07:48:52 PM »
Regarding the missing "double seal" of the coloured Pandas I may add that, when China started to issue coloured coins, they had no experience in minting them in China. So, as far as I remember, some were produced by PAMP in Siwtzerland and some in Australia. I do not recall right now, where the coloured Pandas were minted but it was definitvely not Shanghai or Shenyang, what explains why they do not have the plastic pouch of these mints.

greetz anwir

Offline poconopenn

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2011, 09:48:16 PM »
Colored proof pandas were minted at PAMP in Switzerland. They are not double sealed.

Offline pandamania

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2011, 07:42:40 AM »
Well this is an ironic twist. It seems as though almost everything is made in China (except some of their legal tender coins). The COA`s do not mention that the coins were minted by PAMP Switzerland.

As further clarification to what was said earlier only the 1999 Proof has the same design as the uncirculated variety (and contains no "P").

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2011, 08:43:26 AM »
I have often wondered if all, or part of, the design work of the colored proof Pandas was outsourced. I consider the 1998 to be the clumsiest depiction of the bear in the entire series. The Temple of Heaven in all 3 years of colored proofs also lacks the graceful lines of other years.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline poconopenn

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 12:33:56 PM »
The following China coins were made at Switzerland:

1997-1999 silver Colored panda series
1997-1999 gold and silver auspicious matters series
1998-2009 gold and silver colored lunar series
1998-2001 5 oz silver famous painting series
1999 Kuming horticulture Expo. Colored silver coin (gold plated silver coin was made at Shenzhen Mint)
1999-2000 gold and silver rare bird series
1999-2002 gold and silver Beijing opera art series
2000-2002 gold and silver dream of red mansion series
2002-2004 gold Kuan Yin hologram series

2001 gold and silver folk fairy tales is the first colored coin series made at Shenzhen Mint.

The following China coins were made at Australia:

1993-1994 Platinum Invention and discovered sets
1994-1997 0.1 and 0.05 oz platinum pandas
1995 0.5 oz platinum unicorn
1996 1, 0.25 and 0.05 oz platinum unicorn
1997 1.0 oz platinum unicorn
1996-1998 1.0 oz platinum lunar (rat, ox and tiger)

Offline pandamania

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 01:00:38 PM »
Poconopenn,

You are a wealth of information.

Panda COAs normally indicate which mint produced them. Do you happen to know if any of these COAs show that the coins were minted in Switzerland/Australia?

Regards,

Pandamania

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 01:13:56 PM »
The COAs do not state where the coins were minted, just that they were issued by the People's Bank of China.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline poconopenn

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 01:20:59 PM »
All those coins minted by outside sources were shipped back and repacked by China mint. Some of them actually double sealed. As Peter mentioned, COA were issued by Bank of China and has nothing to do with the contractors.

Offline Kamil

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2011, 05:07:14 PM »
The COAs do not state where the coins were minted, just that they were issued by the People's Bank of China.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

There are some cases were this is not true - from my memory at least for the 2001 and 2002 5oz Peking Opera coins.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: The Colored Silver Panda Proofs
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2011, 07:54:40 PM »
To my knowledge, COA does not show the Mint location. It simple states that the coin is issued by the People's Bank of China and distributed by China Gold Coin Inc. Some earlier coins or medals may state that coin is minted by China Mint or China Banknote Printing & Minting Corp. The only exception is 1980-1986 proof and mint sets. The name of Shanghai or Shenyang Mint was printed on the outer box and no separated COA was issued.