Author Topic: Actual mintages  (Read 97535 times)

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Offline badon

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2008, 11:03:32 PM »
Absolutely great info. This is the reason why I like this forum. Thanks poconopenn.

Offline snowball

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2008, 10:19:42 AM »
As a Chinese coin collector for more than 30 years and modern Chinese coin since 1979, there is a very good explaination of COA # higher than the actual mingtage. The China Mint has maintained a policy to accept foreign distributors to return coin which can not be sold within one year, since 1979. The China Mint actually produced planned mintage and shipped to distributors. Some distributors sold higher COA # coin to the collectors. Some low COA # coin sets might return to China Mint and destroyed, re-circled to make new coins. During 1994-1996, China Mint's made a major error in marketing its coins. The price of initial offer was too high to be acceptable to collectors, especially panda and unicorn. Many coins were return to China Mint. Those coins with higher initial offer price before 1996 usually have a lower final mintage. Most of my collection have a COA# higher than the actual final mintage. There is no reason to be concerned if your COA# is higher than the actual mintage.
 

 :thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1:

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kesheng

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2009, 01:49:48 PM »
Thanks to poconopenn! Nice information!

I have even saw a 20oz silver Dragon & Phoenix coin marked number #510 on its edge like that, while the estimated mintage is about 347.

When printing the COA, sometimes the distributor would skip numbers not favoured - e.g. numbers end with 4 or 7. This may also introduce higher COA numbers.

 :001_smile:

Offline ?

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2009, 09:14:30 PM »
I have absolutely no reason to doubt the explanation given by poconopenn neither to doubt Colin's first post but that leaves us with the question from which source these figures derive. Due to the information of a well-known German coin collector who is responsible for the German world coin catalogue, Chinese offcial sources deny that there is any documentation of the actuals mintages of the earlier coins (this includes Panda 2000 ;))

Looking, e.g. at the figures given for:

1990 Zhu Yuan Zhang 1/3oz gold coin - 2164  (planned: 25000)

1991 Kang Xi 1/3oz gold coin - 1084  (planned: 25000)

1992 Wu Zhe Tian 1/3oz gold coin - 2504  (planned: 25000)

I have all these 3 coins archived 10 times in the last 2 years and just recently acquired one for 3% over POG, whereas e.g. the 1997 Forbidden City set with an official mintage of 4.000, i.e the double, there is none - leave alone the one set I have in my collection.

Or let's take Confuzius, which is given a number of 4,300 and has been sold 23 times in the last 2 years.

The only source I happen to know so far, is "Modern Chinese Commemoratives Gold and Silver Coins and Medals Pictorial" published China Coins Limited and distributed by the People's Bank of China, China Gold Corp. Inc. in Jan. 1988, which sometimes coincides with the figures given here, e.g. Confuzius, sometimes not,e.g. Liu Bang = 4,054 vs. 4,980.

I am aware that rare mintages might generate a "bigger market" in the sense that more dealers look for and offer them. Still I cannot avoid the doubt, if I see rare coins too often ;)

Any chance we will ever clear this up :confused1:

greetz anwir

Offline snowball

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2009, 10:00:35 PM »
hi again anwir,

Check out this article: http://www.jb008.cn/coin/forum_print.asp?forum_id=2&view_id=528
It is written in Chinese, and you may want to use google translator or other language tools to translate it to Germany or English.  It is worth to read.

 :001_smile:
 
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Colin
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Offline Majestic Rarities

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2009, 03:06:21 AM »
The 1993 Marco Polo 5oz Gold sounds interesting.  Anybody ever see one?
I know of two of these fantastic coins.  It is an unbelievable coin!  One was originally offered to me by a collector/dealer in late 2007.  I did not purchase.  I waited and purchsed this 5 oz Gold Marco Polo coin mentioned from the Heritage Auction.  I still have this piece.  It is now in an NGC 68 Ultra Cameo holder.  I believe all coins should be authenticated, graded and encapsulated.  This should be done to protect yourself and to protect your coins.  I think all of the 5 oz Gold coins with low mintages are under valued and will continue to bring strong premiums regardless if Gold is up or down. I buy and sell rare Modern Chinese Coins everyday so I follow all of the trends.   :001_cool:   

One was sold on Heritage's 2008 January NY Signature World Coin Auction for $20,700.00.   :001_tt1:



Offline snowball

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2009, 04:46:06 PM »
KeSheng has scanned and posted the book writing by Ge Zhu Kang.  You can view it on this page:
http://www.bjjbtz.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=14643&extra=page%3D1&page=1

Many mintage figures that we have been discussing are original from this book.  The book is written pure in Chinese.  If anyone needs help translating on specific item, please post the item # here.  I will be glad to do the translation.   :biggrin:





Happy Collecting!  快乐收藏!

Colin
CE Collection Inc.
China Mint | Online Store

Offline ?

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2009, 10:20:26 PM »
great link :thumbup: THANKS  :thumbup1: took some time to get reigstered ;) and now it will take even more time to find out, which line is which coin but it looks GREAT
Thanks again :thumbup:

greetz anwir

kesheng

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2009, 10:30:49 AM »
KeSheng has scanned and posted the book writing by Ge Zhu Kang.  You can view it on this page:
http://www.bjjbtz.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=14643&extra=page%3D1&page=1

Many mintage figures that we have been discussing are original from this book.  The book is written pure in Chinese.  If anyone needs help translating on specific item, please post the item # here.  I will be glad to do the translation.   :biggrin:


I should also be glad to help!  :laugh: :laugh:




kesheng

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2009, 10:47:13 AM »
Actual mintages is a very difficult topic for China Modern coins. I have read some books and articles from senior collectors recently and try to put the data together and verify the differences. Due to the missing / limit of official supporting documents, I think we are far away from the facts. But it is still worth to take the first move, thanks to collectors like Mr. Ge!
Again, the actual mintage numbers are for reference only. :001_smile:

Offline ?

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2009, 05:33:16 PM »
KeSheng has scanned and posted the book writing by Ge Zhu Kang.  You can view it on this page:
http://www.bjjbtz.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=14643&extra=page%3D1&page=1

Many mintage figures that we have been discussing are original from this book.  The book is written pure in Chinese.  If anyone needs help translating on specific item, please post the item # here.  I will be glad to do the translation.   :biggrin:

For those of you who have a hard time registering and loging into a Chinese website, like me :blushing:, I have compiled a pdf from the 58 scans. As this is 15.5 MB I have also made 6 pdf-files with up to 3 MB each. If you want a copy - can't post it here - send me your email adresse via PM and will send you a copy. Please indicate if you want the one big file or the six small files in several emails.

Thanks again to snowball for the link and KeSheng for taking the time to scan and post :thumbup:
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 05:35:17 PM by anwir »

Offline snowball

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2009, 08:18:52 PM »
Thank U, anwir!   :thumbup1:
Happy Collecting!  快乐收藏!

Colin
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2009, 11:59:09 PM »
I have absolutely no reason to doubt the explanation given by poconopenn neither to doubt Colin's first post but that leaves us with the question from which source these figures derive. Due to the information of a well-known German coin collector who is responsible for the German world coin catalogue, Chinese offcial sources deny that there is any documentation of the actuals mintages of the earlier coins (this includes Panda 2000 ;))

Looking, e.g. at the figures given for:

1990 Zhu Yuan Zhang 1/3oz gold coin - 2164  (planned: 25000)

1991 Kang Xi 1/3oz gold coin - 1084  (planned: 25000)

1992 Wu Zhe Tian 1/3oz gold coin - 2504  (planned: 25000)

I have all these 3 coins archived 10 times in the last 2 years and just recently acquired one for 3% over POG, whereas e.g. the 1997 Forbidden City set with an official mintage of 4.000, i.e the double, there is none - leave alone the one set I have in my collection.

Or let's take Confuzius, which is given a number of 4,300 and has been sold 23 times in the last 2 years.

The only source I happen to know so far, is "Modern Chinese Commemoratives Gold and Silver Coins and Medals Pictorial" published China Coins Limited and distributed by the People's Bank of China, China Gold Corp. Inc. in Jan. 1988, which sometimes coincides with the figures given here, e.g. Confuzius, sometimes not,e.g. Liu Bang = 4,054 vs. 4,980.

I am aware that rare mintages might generate a "bigger market" in the sense that more dealers look for and offer them. Still I cannot avoid the doubt, if I see rare coins too often ;)

Any chance we will ever clear this up :confused1:

greetz anwir

Apparently, MDM of Germany was the exclusive distributor for Outstanding Historic Figures sets. According to the following linked article (in Chinese), MDM had made request to China Mint for additional sets, most likely in 2002. Consequently, China Mint produced several thousand sets for MDM during 2003-2005. This may be the reason for a  relatively low price of those gold coins and so many being offered at Germany ebay.
 
http://www.jb008.cn/coin/article_view.asp?id=698

Offline frankiben123

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2009, 07:43:02 AM »
wow....nice post.....

Offline chinesecoinworks

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Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2009, 04:18:38 AM »
I think it is going to be impossible for anyone to track the mintage for certain coins if the mint themselves don't do it. This is especially so for some coins that state 不限量 (Unlimited) in books and documents that we refer to. Those 3 characters make me think that the mint could reproduce them down the years as long as there is demand.