Author Topic: Looking for hear your comments:buyer insists his NGC coins from me are fake  (Read 573 times)

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Offline xuhong

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Right now, I have an open paypal case.   Looking to hear from you for any helpful comments.  Thanks in advance.

The buyer from MI bought 1983 gold panda 5-pc set NGC69 from me in Dec,2018, and now, he contacted paypal saying the 5 coins are counterfeit because some device tested not gold.
also he bought other pandas from other dealer as well and tested not gold.  The pictures attached are all from the buyer.
Obviously, the 5 coins are all guenuine.   And I never selll fake, but the case is there. 

What would you say about this case?   Is there anyone who knows this company that provided the paper ?

Offline Grip

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Explain these were all verified and graded by NGC, you don't sell fakes as verified by your ebay feedback and fellow dealers, and demand Ace Diamond Jewelers show how they were able to test for gold content with the coins in their NGC holders. If all else fails,  have him return the set for a refund and resell them. Good luck..

Offline mcc168

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I have bought Sigma Precious Metal Verifier myself and found this product is good for coin without packing but not accurate at all when coin is in plastic, especial for those coins in NGC or PCGS holder and coin diameters smaller than 18 mm.

Ask him to bring to a coin show with NGC team present and have those professionals to verify.

Offline TomG

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The Marusak sons Carl and Michael recently assumed operation of Ace Diamond Jewelers in January 2019. Their father and uncle retired at the end of 2018. They might not be aware of limitations in XRF scan distance range.

They have a contact page on their web site. You might contact them and ask what they know about this case.

http://www.pressandguide.com/news/family-tradition-continues-as-sons-take-over-ace-diamond-jewelers/article_84b4cd92-25ab-11e9-86e9-93efa4821ae8.html
https://www.acediamondjewelers.com/contact/

Offline xuhong

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Thank you All. N48

Offline Clark Smith

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    • Clark Smith
That gold tester is not reliable with early pandas especially in slabs. 

You can sometimes press very very hard on the slab to close the distance to the sensor, but sometimes not.

I would ask for a return of the coins and then give a refund.

The buyer is wrong, but nothing you can do about that.....

Offline PandaOrLunar

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That gold tester is not reliable with early pandas especially in slabs. 

Why did you said "early pandas"?  How those gold pandas difference from newer pandas?

Offline pandamonium

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If the XRF gun is not reliable w/ graded coins then what is?....

Offline SANDAC

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Perhaps the XRF limitation is due to the equipment used?  I submitted a slabbed NGC coin for XRF testing.  The equipment was Thermo Scientific Niton XL2 and it was able to read the composition accurately.

Offline Clark Smith

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The gold tester they are using is not a XRF gun (which works well).    It's the Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier which is very different.  I own one.

You have to have your sample within a certain distance from the sensor and sometimes slabs keep the coin too high due to the height of the plastic.  Also the smaller the coin, the harder to scan correctly.

Early pandas (1982 and some other early 80's) come up not gold on the Sigma tester, which seems to indicate that some early panda composition isn't 999 fine gold, but perhaps 991.   This is enough for the Sigma tester to fail them.  (You need to know how the tester works to understand why).

The XRF gun will give you an exact percentage of gold.   The Sigma tester gives you an LED block that must be in the center of the range expected for the fineness of gold the machine expects.    Hard to explain, but youtube videos on using a Sigma tester will show you.

Sigma tester:  https://sigmametalytics.com/

Offline TomG

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This Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal Verifier review corroborates Clark Smith’s experiences with the machine including early gold panda test results.

“Some did appear to be false positives, but were due to an error on my end (e.g. testing for .999 fine gold instead of .9167).”

http://about.ag/SigmaMetalytics.htm