Author Topic: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?  (Read 1009 times)

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Offline PandaCollector

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From Bloomberg News:

"Trump Wants $200 Billion in China Tariffs Despite Talks, Sources Say"

By Jennifer Jacobs , Saleha Mohsin , and Jenny Leonard
September 14, 2018, 9:01 AM PDT Updated on September 14, 2018, 9:49 AM PDT
"President instructed trade advisers to proceed with new round "

It looks like these proposed tariffs would add 25% to the cost of many gold and silver numismatic items imported from China. I think coins with denominations would not be covered by this round, but they might fall under 7106.92.10 or 7108.13.55.

The following is from the official request for comments:

OFFICE OF THE UNITED STATES TRADE REPRESENTATIVE
Docket Number USTR-2018-0026
Request for Comments Concerning Proposed Modification of Action Pursuant to Section 301: China’s Acts, Policies, and Practices Related to Technology Transfer, Intellectual
Property, and Innovation
AGENCY: Office of the United States Trade Representative.
ACTION: Request for comments and notice of public hearing.

.. On July 6, 2018, China responded to the initial action by imposing increased duties on goods of the United States. In light of China’s decision to respond to the investigation by imposing duties on U.S. goods, the Trade Representative proposes a modification of the action taken in this investigation. The proposed modification is to maintain the original $34 billion action and the proposed $16 billion action, and to take furtheraction in the form of an additional 10 percent (since changed to 25% - PA) ad valorem duty on products of China with an annual trade value of approximately $200 billion. The products subject to this proposed supplemental action are classified in the HTSUS subheadings set out in the Annex to this notice.

7106.10.00 Silver powder
7106.91.10 Silver bullion and dore
7106.91.50 Silver, unwrought (o/than bullion and dore)
7106.92.10 Silver (incl. silver plate w gold/platinum),semimanufacture,rectangular/near rectangular
shape,99.5% or > pure,marked only by wgt/identity
7106.92.50 Silver (including silver plated with gold or platinum), in semimanufactured form, nesoi
7107.00.00 Base metals clad with silver, not further worked than semimanufactured
7108.11.00 Gold powder
7108.12.10 Gold, nonmonetary, bullion and dore
7108.12.50 Gold, nonmonetary, unwrought (o/than gold bullion and dore)
7108.13.10 Gold leaf
7108.13.55 Gold (incl. gold plated w platinum),not money,semimanufacture,rectangle/near
rectangular shape,99.5% or > pure,marked only by wgt/identity
7108.13.70 Gold (including gold plated with platinum), nonmonetary, in semimanufactured forms
(except gold leaf), nesoi
7108.20.00 Gold, monetary, in unwrought, semimanufactured or powder form
7109.00.00 Base metals or silver clad with gold, but not further worked than semimanufactured
7110.11.00 Platinum, unwrought or in powder form
7110.19.00 Platinum, in semimanufactured forms
7110.21.00 Palladium, unwrought or in powder form
7110.29.00 Palladium, in semimanufactured forms
7110.31.00 Rhodium, unwrought or in powder form

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 07:57:28 AM »
Not good.   I take it this Tariff applies to ALL Chinese coins/medals and all years?       My thoughts were that China would suspend exporting all Chinese coins/medals at some point but looks like the Tariff will hit first.    This means higher prices...
The property i am part owner of has a small cherry orchard and smaller apple orchard.     Last yr the manager thought China could not buy the crop.      The crop was picked and sold to a non tariff country that shipped the crop to China bypassing the Tariff.   Wish something like that could work out w/ Chinese coins/medals.....

Offline Clark Smith

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2018, 11:47:28 AM »
Numismatics are in the 9705 category.     No tax on numismatics.

Use these codes when importing:

9705.00.00.30    Gold    Au g       
9705.00.00.60    Other    (think silver and copper)    

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2018, 01:18:10 PM »
z
Numismatics are in the 9705 category.     No tax on numismatics.

Use these codes when importing:

9705.00.00.30    Gold    Au g       
9705.00.00.60    Other    (think silver and copper)    

From the 25% tariff list (page 205):

9705.00.00 Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological etc. interest

Does this include coins as collectors' pieces of historical or etc. interest? I would think, probably, but maybe a sub-category will escape.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Clark Smith

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2018, 01:23:58 PM »
Numismatics is included.     


9705000030 ─ Gold Numismatic (collectors') Coins 9705000060 ─ Numismatic (collectors') Coins, Except Gold 9705000070 ─ Collections And Collectors' Pieces Of Archaeological, Historical Or Ethnographic Interest

9705000030 Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest



Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2018, 01:31:18 PM »
Numismatics is included.     


9705000030 ─ Gold Numismatic (collectors') Coins 9705000060 ─ Numismatic (collectors') Coins, Except Gold 9705000070 ─ Collections And Collectors' Pieces Of Archaeological, Historical Or Ethnographic Interest

9705000030 Collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest




Then numismatic items like coins and medals will be subject to the 25% tariff if it goes into effect is how I read it. Dang.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Clark Smith

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2018, 01:34:57 PM »
Are you saying 9705 is in the 25% tariff list ?

You won't see many 2019 pandas in the USA imported by big dealers........

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 01:44:38 PM »
Are you saying 9705 is in the 25% tariff list ?

You won't see many 2019 pandas in the USA imported by big dealers........

Yes, 9705 is on the tariff list. It would only escape if imported as currency, but I don't think that is how Panda coins are reported. I think the tariff would effectively stop 2019 Panda coin imports.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 01:54:16 PM »
What day does the 25% tariff begin?    Is it already active?   

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 01:58:12 PM »
What day does the 25% tariff begin?    Is it already active?   

It is not active yet. It could be imposed at any time, or never. The period to receive comments has ended so it is ready to go. Never would be good, though.

Incidentally, you will see a 2020 Valentine Panda next year, tariff or no tariff.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline bonke

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 05:51:41 PM »
If these new duties apply to the Special Administration Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, they will have a significant impact on the coin shows and auctions.  Interesting!  I will be pleased to see how this develops and adjust my future plans accordingly. 

Thanks for bringing this information to my attention.  I was unaware of the changing circumstances. 

Mark Bonke

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2018, 06:55:31 PM »
If these new duties apply to the Special Administration Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, they will have a significant impact on the coin shows and auctions.  Interesting!  I will be pleased to see how this develops and adjust my future plans accordingly. 

Thanks for bringing this information to my attention.  I was unaware of the changing circumstances. 

Mark Bonke

From the South China Morning Post , "Technically, Hong Kong is to be shielded by a US deal, called the United States-Hong Kong Policy Act, which means the country has treated the city separately from China in terms of trade export and economics since the return of its sovereignty from Britain to China in 1997. So the tariffs the US slapped on China do not apply to Hong Kong." There is no mention of Macau having a special agreement so exports from there may well be subject to tariffs.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2018, 07:03:21 PM »
Posted an hour ago on The Hill:

"Trump to announce $200B in tariffs on Chinese goods as early as Monday: report"

"President Trump will announce $200 billion in tariffs on Chinese goods early next week, despite his administration's ongoing trade negotiations with Chinese officials. The Wall Street Journal reported Saturday that Trump administration officials are prepared to make an official announcement as early as Monday or Tuesday. The White House did not immediately return a request for comment from The Hill. The news comes days after Trump met with top economic advisers to discuss trade moves against China. Earlier this week, the president expressed publicly that increased pressure was having an effect on China's economy.

"They are under pressure to make a deal with us," Trump tweeted on Thursday. "Our markets are surging, theirs are collapsing. We will soon be taking in Billions in Tariffs & making products at home. If we meet, we meet?"

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline bonke

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2018, 08:38:01 PM »
Peter

Thank you for the information.

If I remember correctly, the PRC has exported numismatic products since the early 1980s through a division of the Bank of China which is located in Hong Kong (China Gold Coin, Inc.).  If so, the new duties should not impact these numismatic products.

It will be strange if these gold, silver and platinum coins, medals and bullion products are able to so easily avoid the new duty.

Mark Bonke

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2018, 09:36:04 PM »
Peter

Just an additional thought.  Will Hong Kong be the Country of Origin for these numismatic and bullion products?  or will the PRC still be the country of origin?  Will it matter whether this involves new products from China Gold Coin, Inc., or whether this involves my purchases from the next Stacks or Heritage auction in Kowloon (whether in person or by internet)?

I will be pleased when all of this is clear in my mind so that I will know whether it will be appropriate to return to Asia in search of items for my collection or if it will be be appropriate to bid by internet on items in these Asian auctions.

Mark Bonke

ps  Imagine if you purchased an expensive item from Xu Hong which will arrive at a US Custom's facility for clearance after the effective time and date of the new duties.

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2018, 11:38:31 PM »
Mark,

It seems reasonable (to me) that a product manufactured prior to the tariff taking effect, purchased in Hong Kong and with a Hong Kong sales receipt would not be subject to the tariff. I don't expect this will have any effect on items bought at auction in Hong Kong.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2018, 12:07:25 AM »
Hey, a report in the last hour has the tariff scaled back to 10%.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2018, 01:13:46 AM »
Peter

10% is certainly better than 25%.

If I purchase an item at auction for US $1000 plus a 20% commission = US $1200.  Then, the 25% tariff would increase the price to US $1500.

In contrast, if I purchase the same item at auction for US $1000 plus a 20% commission = US $1200.  Then, the 10% tariff would increase the price to $1320.  Much better from my perspective as a consumer or collector.

Mark Bonke

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2018, 01:48:36 AM »
Peter

Think of the implications of the tariff (10% or 25%) for mainland Chinese dealers who list and sell on Ebay to USA buyers.  The purchase is made.  Payment is made.  The item is shipped.  If properly declared, Customs holds the item until the duty is paid (requiring a Customs broker to help clear the transaction).  If not properly declared, Customs seizes the item and resells it in one of the government auctions.  A Customs broker usually costs me $45 with FedEx and $240-$300 with another delivery service.  This does change the nature of a purchase from the PRC by a USA buyer.

Mark Bonke

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2018, 07:44:40 AM »
Past posts here say China will eventually keep their gold/silver, coins/medals for their domestic market and it makes sense to me.   10% tariff might encourage that to begin as we all know gold/silver will soon be real money.     It also makes sense that dealers in China will ship to a trusted entity in Hong Kong or open a small shop there to ship to the US so shipping might increase a bit...

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2018, 11:32:10 AM »
Reuter  "Trump likely to announce new China tariffs as early as Monday;  source".....

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2018, 11:45:25 AM »
Peter

Think of the implications of the tariff (10% or 25%) for mainland Chinese dealers who list and sell on Ebay to USA buyers.  The purchase is made.  Payment is made.  The item is shipped.  If properly declared, Customs holds the item until the duty is paid (requiring a Customs broker to help clear the transaction).  If not properly declared, Customs seizes the item and resells it in one of the government auctions.  A Customs broker usually costs me $45 with FedEx and $240-$300 with another delivery service.  This does change the nature of a purchase from the PRC by a USA buyer.

Mark Bonke

Yes. The future of this part of the trade is pretty hazy now. At least Hong Kong is unaffected.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2018, 09:42:00 PM »
At about 5PM PST it was announced 10% tariff is applied to Chinese goods.     How does this work?    If anyone buys today they pay the 10% or is the dealer charged?    Is it applied at the post office?    If a package is in the mail does it get taxed in the US?   Any one know?.....

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2018, 10:46:02 PM »
At about 5PM PST it was announced 10% tariff is applied to Chinese goods.     How does this work?    If anyone buys today they pay the 10% or is the dealer charged?    Is it applied at the post office?    If a package is in the mail does it get taxed in the US?   Any one know?.....

Packages with values of less than $2,500 may escape the tariff. Above $2,500 it can cost not only the tariff but also the cost of customs clearance. A new China Pricepedia is about to be sent out that discusses this.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2018, 12:42:29 AM »
Bullion coins will definitely take a hit, 2019 could be key date year due to tariff and multi year low demand for bullion.  The show medals should be fine, considering most importers will declare just the bullion value of the coins, so 1oz silver medal will be $1.60 more expensive to import, not a big deal.

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2018, 12:02:36 PM »
The show medals should be fine, considering most importers will declare just the bullion value of the coins, so 1oz silver medal will be $1.60 more expensive to import, not a big deal.

For shipping, the Mint insures their products for the full replacement cost which is way, way above melt value. This higher value is what the tariff will be based on. The importer has no opportunity to reduce it.

Incidentally, I just read that the 10% will increase to 25% on January 1.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2018, 09:23:45 PM »
10% tariffs take effect on Sept 24th Monday from what i read.    That allows time for purchase from China and ship before then.    Not sure how they will tax it and emailed a know it all but no return email yet.....

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2018, 11:22:01 PM »
Doesn't the distributor have choice to take delivery in Mainland and then ship however they please to rest of world.

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Re: Imminent 25% Tariff on Gold and Silver Numismatic Items from China?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2018, 11:55:48 PM »
Doesn't the distributor have choice to take delivery in Mainland and then ship however they please to rest of world.

No. The terms of the export license require that every single piece be sealed and shipped overseas. If you ship to the mainland, the PBC (People's Bank of China) will likely not issue an export license later and the license is required.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com