Author Topic: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair  (Read 3872 times)

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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2018, 09:30:57 PM »
Hi Golden Lord. I also feel that rare coins have much greater potential for price appreciation than medals that may be just as rare. Although, I do wonder what the pricing gains will be for older medals like the one above and others from the Hong Kong, Berlin, ANA shows, and the early year gods from the 80’s? I don’t believe the modern private sponsored medals (private/official mints) will do much in the medium to longer term time horizon. They will be forgotten?

An individualized approach might yield greater dividend when trying to predict winners and losers here. From the little I know there seems to be at least two price spikes in the life of a coin, the early spike fanned more by exuberance (and hype) and a later spike when sustaining value is envisioned.

Again there seems to be a pecking order in this valuation:
Age—New versus Old releases.
Form—Coin versus Medal.
Sponsor—Government versus Non-government (?subdivision Corporate versus Individual sponsor)
Mint: Government versus Private.
The X-Factor—Variable.
Other Factors.

I suspect it is the interplay of such factors that determine how well a coin or medal does.
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Offline greenmile358

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2018, 04:52:11 PM »
An individualized approach might yield greater dividend when trying to predict winners and losers here. From the little I know there seems to be at least two price spikes in the life of a coin, the early spike fanned more by exuberance (and hype) and a later spike when sustaining value is envisioned.

Again there seems to be a pecking order in this valuation:
Age—New versus Old releases.
Form—Coin versus Medal.
Sponsor—Government versus Non-government (?subdivision Corporate versus Individual sponsor)
Mint: Government versus Private.
The X-Factor—Variable.
Other Factors.

I suspect it is the interplay of such factors that determine how well a coin or medal does.


Why should the type of sponsorship matter as long as a coin or medal is minted by a government mint? Isn't it true that some of the most well-known Chinese coins are privately-sponsored: e.g., show pandas or the early-year silver pandas?

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2018, 06:09:28 PM »

Why should the type of sponsorship matter as long as a coin or medal is minted by a government mint? Isn't it true that some of the most well-known Chinese coins are privately-sponsored: e.g., show pandas or the early-year silver pandas?

Welcome to the forum!

Being produced in a government Mint does not cancel out the influence of the type of sponsor.

A government commissioned or sponsored coin or medal is more likely to be regarded as a reliable piece for collection compared to privately sponsored equivalents. This is already borne out by contemporary experience both in China and the overseas MCC collector community.

The government assures constancy and already has a proven track record. The government is more likely to be more answerable to the collector than the private sponsor. You can, for example, make a “freedom of information” request to government mints (at least in some western countries) and certain requested information is made available to you. A private coin/medal sponsor is not under such legal obligation to release information on mintage related matters.

We have also come across certain private sponsors whose professional behavior left a lot to be desired thereby impinging on new and established collectors’ confidence in their wares.

Erratic private sponsor behavior has already been demonstrated on more than one occasion. For example, there is a sponsor who suddenly undercut the value of earlier sponsored medals by dropping their prices after some years. You wouldn’t go near his products a second time, would you?!

There are quite a lot of other reasons but these suffice for now. But it is not a controversial fact that collectors tend to be more trusting of government commissioned coins than those from private entrepreneurs.

The reputation and collectibility of some early year privately sponsored medals have benefitted from the passage of time, which one of the factors I listed. But a lot more fell by the wayside!
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Offline greenmile358

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2018, 07:14:12 PM »
Welcome to the forum!

Being produced in a government Mint does not cancel out the influence of the type of sponsor.

A government commissioned or sponsored coin or medal is more likely to be regarded as a reliable piece for collection compared to privately sponsored equivalents. This is already borne out by contemporary experience both in China and the overseas MCC collector community.

The government assures constancy and already has a proven track record. The government is more likely to be more answerable to the collector than the private sponsor. You can, for example, make a “freedom of information” request to government mints (at least in some western countries) and certain requested information is made available to you. A private coin/medal sponsor is not under such legal obligation to release information on mintage related matters.

We have also come across certain private sponsors whose professional behavior left a lot to be desired thereby impinging on new and established collectors’ confidence in their wares.

Erratic private sponsor behavior has already been demonstrated on more than one occasion. For example, there is a sponsor who suddenly undercut the value of earlier sponsored medals by dropping their prices after some years. You wouldn’t go near his products a second time, would you?!

There are quite a lot of other reasons but these suffice for now. But it is not a controversial fact that collectors tend to be more trusting of government commissioned coins than those from private entrepreneurs.

The reputation and collectibility of some early year privately sponsored medals have benefitted from the passage of time, which one of the factors I listed. But a lot more fell by the wayside!


Thanks for the perspective--you make some good points here. Clearly, the reputation of the sponsor should and does matter for an issue's value and desirability. However, it does seem indiscriminate to discount and avoid all privately-sponsored government-mint products, as some collectors seem to be doing nowadays. After all, if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Martin Weiss was the private sponsor of the earliest silver pandas (1983-1985) and other notable issues.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2018, 08:43:25 PM »

Thanks for the perspective--you make some good points here. Clearly, the reputation of the sponsor should and does matter for an issue's value and desirability. However, it does seem indiscriminate to discount and avoid all privately-sponsored government-mint products, as some collectors seem to be doing nowadays. After all, if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Martin Weiss was the private sponsor of the earliest silver pandas (1983-1985) and other notable issues.

Coin collection should be a voluntary activity. Interestingly many adult collectors don’t seem to be allowed the free will to make informed decisions hence the backlash that routinely happens when they become wiser.

As I learn more about coin collection I keep on refining weighting factors that help me in deciding which coin or medal to add to my collection and which one to pass. I listed some of those factors above.

I don’t have enough historical information on Mr. Weiss to respond accurately to your comment. All I know is that time has validated his cooperative ventures with the Chinese Mints, his vision and support for the MCC program. Again, note that weighting factor, time (age), in operation here. He has been tested by time!
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Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2018, 03:13:15 AM »
Sponsor is very important.  Let me give you two example:

1) Sponsor A mints 1000 medals and sell 500 to collectors, dealers and distributors and keeps 500 to slowly bleed out as prices rise.  This medal will spike early because, but over time it won't spike because a overhang of inventory will keep prices muted.

2) Sponsor B mints 1000 medals, sells 1 at a time to collectors at very affordable price, the collector base is wide and spread out over multiple cities and countries.  This medal will be flat at the start and over time as more people learn about it will rise in price as it is very difficult to find collectors that are willing to sell as most have gifted or put away the medal for long time.

When a medal spikes early it often implies Sponsor A and it is wise to avoid.  When you see medal still at issue price it often implies Sponsor B and it might we worth buying if the design is good, government mint and trustworthy sponsor. 

Offline collectingcoins

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2018, 11:31:29 AM »
Some really good advice on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share with everyone.  It has helped me put the brakes on pieces I was going to buy.  On the medals side, I was considering the Classical Garden series.  I know I'm late to the series, and maybe the price appreciation has already happened, but I wonder if this is a good series to collect? 
I wonder if most on this site purchase and collect coins or both coins and medals.  My initial observation is that most are collectors of coins, with a yuan face value, with a minority focused on just medals as defined above. 

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2018, 03:31:08 PM »
Some really good advice on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share with everyone.  It has helped me put the brakes on pieces I was going to buy.  On the medals side, I was considering the Classical Garden series.  I know I'm late to the series, and maybe the price appreciation has already happened, but I wonder if this is a good series to collect? 
I wonder if most on this site purchase and collect coins or both coins and medals.  My initial observation is that most are collectors of coins, with a yuan face value, with a minority focused on just medals as defined above. 

The essence of some of the discussions here and elsewhere is that collectors must make personal decisions on what to collect and not rely on other’s recommendations to avoid regret. Experienced members have always cautioned on patience and taking time to learn all there is about a coin or medal (or in this case a medal series) before deciding on what to do. There are quite a number of resources to consult and you also sound experienced in coin collection. I hope you will make a decision that is most suitable for you.

Best wishes!

PS: This has not been entirely a discussion about the merits of coins versus medals. It will be quite misguided for someone to eschew medals because of what they think they have read here. There are potentially some great finds out there for the astute individual to collect. The task is to find such collector pieces. The joys and tribulation of coin collection!
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Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2018, 09:02:48 PM »
Some really good advice on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share with everyone.  It has helped me put the brakes on pieces I was going to buy.  On the medals side, I was considering the Classical Garden series.  I know I'm late to the series, and maybe the price appreciation has already happened, but I wonder if this is a good series to collect? 
I wonder if most on this site purchase and collect coins or both coins and medals.  My initial observation is that most are collectors of coins, with a yuan face value, with a minority focused on just medals as defined above. 




Collectingcoins, i get emails and other chatter so will ask you straight up.    Do you know a former member here named Bob Arsenault or barsenault?      He left this forum and badon's too.     He had some serious problems w/ other coin collectors/dealers and is now well known by this small community.     Many avoid him now.    Instead of behind the back chatter i think it is best to ask you as some tell me that you could be barsenault.     Any truth to this or just a silly rumor? ........

Offline PandaCollector

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I'm a bit surprised that that gold pieces haven't sold out yet - with a mintage of a mere 50? 

For the record, these did sell out after they became available.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline collectingcoins

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Hi PandaCollector. Indeed it appears they did sell out.  It is a pretty looking panda for sure. I haven't written in awhile, been busy attending family matters. I've been buying a slew of gold, can't beat these prices.  Good day.