Author Topic: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."  (Read 1918 times)

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Offline Birdman

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"Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« on: October 26, 2017, 07:39:43 AM »
"Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."

October 25, 2017.  Bloomberg.com

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-26/billionaires-fortunes-rise-to-6-trillion-with-asia-leading-way?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

"A combination of geopolitical stability in Greater China, rising Chinese real estate prices, infrastructure spending, the growing middle class and buoyant commodity prices all boosted wealth, the UBS report said, citing interviews with Asia’s richest people."

"One billionaire is created every three weeks in China: UBS"

This all looks favorable for disposable income and demand for alternative investments like Chinese coins.  On the surface, demand for master sets would seem to continue?  Anyone have information on how many orders are currently out for complete master sets of gold china pandas?

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 08:06:55 AM »
The tide will eventually turn in favor of rare Chinese coins/medals, then we will see racing pigeon prices......

Offline bonke

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 11:54:01 AM »
I accept the fact that there are an increasing number of billionaires and millionaires in the PRC.  Very exciting, especially if you are one of these people with newly found wealth.  I struggle with the concept that this fact will make my collection of modern Chinese coins more valuable.  When I look at my collection, I see nothing that a very wealthy mainland Chinese person would want to purchase at a price which would be much more than I paid for it.

I accept the fact that business people in the PRC need favors from well-connected government officials to engage in business within the PRC or to obtain hard currency to engage in business elsewhere.  These business people may need to bestow a gift on the official or a family member to make it more likely that the favor will be granted.  One such gift has been a collection of gold panda coins from 1982 to the present, without regard to real quality, mint mark, variety, etc.  A gift which has an ascertainable value and which may be transported or stored/concealed easily.

I accept the fact that Xi Jin Ping has been annointed as the supreme leader of the PRC for the next 5 years and possibly far beyond.  During his first term, Xi Jin Ping aggressively attempted to arrest and incarcerate a multitude of government officials who accepted gifts.  Nothing in the media suggests Xi Jin Ping will alter his campaign against corruption.

What does all of this say for my coin collection?  I should buy things I like at prices I can afford without any likelihood of recovering the cost of my purchase in the future.

As a sidenote, in 2000, I attended an investors conference near Dulles airport (by Washington, D.C.).  I met the CEO for Sina.com.  He gave me a t-shirt and pair of chop sticks with the company logo.  He was a clever young man with a good feel for the tech "bubble" and the limitations on additional funding for his company.  His stock sold for around $4 a share.  Today, it sells for $106 per share.  Now, that was an investment to make in the PRC.

Mark Bonke

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 07:54:51 AM »
The world is going to gold/silver behind the scenes.    China/Russia have huge inventory of gold/silver.     The East are the new economy and gold will be the new money as it has been for thousands of years before the West propaganda that says gold has no value.     It has been a long haul as the Master Manipulators have continually knocked down bullion so the weak hands will sell to the bank strong hands.       We are close to the end of supply now w/ huge increasing demand.      We the collectors have got to be strong hands and believe in what we collect.     There is plenty of paper wealth or crypto wealth that has out paced gold/silver and MCC.    Gold/silver and Chinese money will soon take center stage..........
I too have passed on many stock opportunities among other paper instruments.    Gotta have real assets in hand......   Today may look bleak for bullion and Chinese MCC but not tomorrow or the near future...

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2017, 12:14:44 AM »
PetroYuan is coming.  A lot of bullish news for china, yet yuan isn't getting stronger.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/everything-you-wanted-know-about-petroyuan-were-afraid-ask

Offline wg

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2017, 05:10:54 AM »
( .. )

 When I look at my collection, I see nothing that a very wealthy mainland Chinese person would want to purchase at a price which would be much more than I paid for it.

( .. )


 N20

when i look at my collection, i see many coins that a very wealthy mainland chinese person would want to purchase at a price which would be much more than I paid for it.


Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2017, 07:59:10 AM »
Bonke collects mostly medals and there is a book in China issued in 2013? about medals.     Not sure of quality.    One book on early year medals has potential to turn this market around like Mr Sun's book on circ coins.      I think Bonke has many that wealthy Chinese would want....   Surprising how many medal collectors there are but i like medals and coins.......

wg;  it would take the entire Chinese army to move your MCC back to the East IF you were to sell back to China.     You would be so wealthy you could run for the next US president.     Maybe you could buy up JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and other banks!    maybe.......

A strong Yuan is coming and the Petro Yuan will get it there in time.    First the West's manipulation of bullion must be removed and that is in progress behind the scenes.    Chinese money will rule and rare Chinese coins/medals will become a monster market.    Only question is the timing.....   Seems like Russian rare coins will go up too...

Offline bonke

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 09:50:34 AM »
WG

You are one of the fortunate collectors of modern Chinese coins.  You have a true "hoard" of coins.  Many people will want your coins when you decide to sell.  Your problem will be one of marketing.  You will have to slowly sell your collection to avoid negatively impacting prices.  A quick sale of your collection would be devastating for prices of modern Chinese coins.

I am not in your position.  I own many items for which I overpaid because I thought they were "interesting" and possibly rare.  I was buying silver goldfish sets before NGC was authenticating them and you were buying 1/2oz gold pandas in bulk.  You were smart and I was . . .

Mark Bonke

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 12:28:17 PM »
Talking as a collector I have found that the "buy what you like" aphorism is not just good enough for me anymore. I have bought enough duds to earn that costly education! There is a need for a fundamental analysis of the coin or medal in sight and cool headed decisions. I have learned to walk away from certain deals and the pain has become easier with the more I ignore no matter how beautiful they appear. For example, I walked away from the 35th anniversary gold panda coin because my potential cost of acquisition did not make sense to me.

The Chinese gold panda coin series (and silver too) still retain the characteristics that make them great collector pieces. They now have longevity to add to that. Furthermore, the Chinese Mint is not doing anything (yet!) to undermine the value of previous years' mintages.

Everyone has his or her own tried and tested or theoretical approach to investing in coins. I would believe that buying as close to spot as possible, is one of the options to consider if one understands that coin investment is highly speculative! To hit a jackpot you may need to be a serial (unsexy) coin accumulator!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2017, 07:13:35 AM »
WG

You are one of the fortunate collectors of modern Chinese coins.  You have a true "hoard" of coins.  Many people will want your coins when you decide to sell.  Your problem will be one of marketing.  You will have to slowly sell your collection to avoid negatively impacting prices.  A quick sale of your collection would be devastating for prices of modern Chinese coins.

I am not in your position.  I own many items for which I overpaid because I thought they were "interesting" and possibly rare.  I was buying silver goldfish sets before NGC was authenticating them and you were buying 1/2oz gold pandas in bulk.  You were smart and I was . . .

Mark Bonke



I have seen at least 3 different OMP 84 silver goldfish sets sell on ebay and maybe 2 graded in the last yr sell on ebay.     Have never seen so many for sale, usually 1 a yr maybe.       Sellers need cash as bullion is once again dropped way down to flush out the weak hands and this takes time.    The psychology of the Master Manipulaters is to encourage us to become weak hands and give up, never!       84 silver goldfish are a very good buy as the dies are hand engraved and famous designer, etc...       Other rare MCC are also listed to help w/ cash flow for sellers.    Even small gold pandas are low priced today....
Silver is still a 70 to 1 or less ratio w/ gold.    Miners say 10 to 1 ratio out of the ground.     Silver has huge upcoming demand for solar, medical, etc...     There will be a silver shortage w/ increased demand/price.       Many analysts say to buy silver over gold.      The Chinese market is weak for silver also due to the Coin Exchange collapse and mostly newer issue silver returning to the market.       We are in a temporary weak spot and have been for some time.       Have faith in the Chinese market and bullion too.     Matter of time for the market to turn around.      Some rare early year Chinese silver are cheap, so now is the time to buy.         Both gold and silver Chinese are great buys but the market is not saying that at this time so ignore the market and keep collecting..........

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 11:09:23 AM »
Talking as a collector I have found that the "buy what you like" aphorism is not just good enough for me anymore. I have bought enough duds to earn that costly education!

Have you stopped liking those ounces? You sound like you're talking not as a collector but as an investor. Remember an investor buys to make a profit. A collector buys what he enjoys owning.

Offline ccl

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2017, 12:31:00 PM »
Liking something is not reason enough to buy it without considering the price and other factors.

There seem to be these rather romantic notions of what it means to be a collector but intelligent collectors will ensure they pay a fair price so in turn they can build more robust collections. Collecting smart means more money on hand and not losing money instantly at the point of purchase - the biggest mistake anyone can make in collecting or investing.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2017, 10:09:09 PM »
Liking something is not reason enough to buy it without considering the price and other factors.

There seem to be these rather romantic notions of what it means to be a collector but intelligent collectors will ensure they pay a fair price so in turn they can build more robust collections. Collecting smart means more money on hand and not losing money instantly at the point of purchase - the biggest mistake anyone can make in collecting or investing.

+1
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 08:07:12 AM »
Mark, check this out.    I saw the link on jsmineset   by  Visual Capitalist   "All of the world's money and markets in one visualization".       Seeing it is different then numbers being thrown around.       Once you see it, how can the West's paper money survive the unwinding of derivatives?       The wealth will flood to the gold rich East currency and Precious Metals w/ rare Chinese coins/medals leading the way.       As i stated earlier the world has not seen a change in financials from West to East so few can predict how it will unravel.     It will happen in our lifetime and possibly soon.     Owning the rarest PM of the East is a very wise choice regardless of coin or medal.......you can still buy Chinese 1/2 oz gold pandas today...

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2017, 02:45:38 PM »
Here is the link, http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/.  It is a great visualization except for the derivative graphic which is misleading and geared to confuse and panic the average reader.  Derivatives notional value can be large but its exposure tiny. 

For example:
$100K I can buy 78 oz of gold in the cash bullion
$100K I can control 2000 oz of gold in the futures market

When comparing the above two scenarios derivative contract looks very risky because it is levered 25 to 1 and this is the perception that gold bugs want you to see.  The reality is very different, very small percentage of the derivative market buys the future contract as shown above.  Instead a strategy could be to go long the December 2017 contract and short March 2018 contract, this spread trade would allow you to control 6000-8000 oz of gold with $100K, the risk of this trade is similar compared to 78 oz cash bullion trade, yet visual magnitude graph shows the derivative trade with 90 boxes (7000oz/78oz) vs 1 box for cash bullion trade.