Author Topic: Chinese Error Coins & Medals  (Read 3636 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2017, 10:45:38 AM »
Possible die crack or strike thru on forehead

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 202
  • Gender: Male
    • China Mint Coins, LLC
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 06:04:59 PM »
Jean 7th issue article calls the 87 missing mint mark coins doubtful version - page 58.   2001 small D discussed on same page as a fantasy coin.
https://issuu.com/jeandigitala1/docs/the_seventh_issue_of_jean

1987 missing mint mark coin auctioned for $550, down 80% from last sale.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/54838909_china-1987-panda-5-yuan-ngc-pf69-ultra-cameo


Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 06:33:31 PM »
Maybe I should ask NGC for a refund N18

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 202
  • Gender: Male
    • China Mint Coins, LLC
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 06:38:54 PM »
That is an interesting question, when does the guaranty kick in.  The coin is in a grey zone, no proof it is real, no proof it is fake, caught in the middle of being doubtful.

Let's say they buy you out at $1500, if in 10 years the coin is worth $200 because it considered a fantasy coin you will be happy?  How about if the coin turns out to be real and becomes $10,000.  There is a lot to consider before getting bought out.

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 07:03:06 PM »
True....there seems to be a lot of misdirection with various varieties these days and my reliance is not only on NGC but also from other collectors... which have sourced no mint marks directly from former Mint employees...just like the 1992 high 2 I have no issue waiting this out for 10 plus years until the final verdict is in.

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 09:17:52 PM »
Jean 7th issue article calls the 87 missing mint mark coins doubtful version - page 58.   2001 small D discussed on same page as a fantasy coin.
https://issuu.com/jeandigitala1/docs/the_seventh_issue_of_jean

1987 missing mint mark coin auctioned for $550, down 80% from last sale.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/54838909_china-1987-panda-5-yuan-ngc-pf69-ultra-cameo



The article refers to a 1/10 missing mint mark circulating in the market for some time.  Truth be known there is only one 1/10 missing mint mark and it has not been to market once.  In fact I know the owner.  Not sure what the article is referring to.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+15)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 202
  • Gender: Male
    • China Mint Coins, LLC
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 10:50:33 PM »
I have never read jean prior today or know nothing about their expertise related to modern coins, someone alerted me about the article to thank me for advising them to not buy the missing mint mark coin a while back. 

It is always good to question unknowns sources, because in this industry there is often strong bias, motives and manipulation by certains authors.   Even I have a bias, if I write a book about gold panda coin buyer's guide, it would be 80% dedicated to 1/2oz coins, which is similar to percentage of my collection that is 1/2oz.  I always laugh every time someone shows me a book on 100 top xyz coins, my first thought is the author hoards certain coins and then writes about them to increase their marketability for personal benefit.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2664
  • Karma: 226
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2017, 02:44:53 PM »
Jean 7th issue article calls the 87 missing mint mark coins doubtful version - page 58.   2001 small D discussed on same page as a fantasy coin.
https://issuu.com/jeandigitala1/docs/the_seventh_issue_of_jean

1987 missing mint mark coin auctioned for $550, down 80% from last sale.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/54838909_china-1987-panda-5-yuan-ngc-pf69-ultra-cameo


True....there seems to be a lot of misdirection with various varieties these days and my reliance is not only on NGC but also from other collectors... which have sourced no mint marks directly from former Mint employees...just like the 1992 high 2 I have no issue waiting this out for 10 plus years until the final verdict is in.

This is the English translation of article by Zhao Yan Sheng (赵燕生) which I posted previously.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=13558.0

IMO, the author’s statement of proof 1987 1/10 oz. gold panda as “doubtful version” is correct assessment, since this coin was well-made and the lack of documentation was understandable for period prior to 2000. 1987 1/20 oz. proof gold panda also has missing P version, but did not mentioned in this article. The documentation was well-kept after 2000, especially at Shenzhen Mint, an ISO certified new plant. This Mint started its operation in 1996 and certified in 1997. If there was a master die for 2001 SD, it should have record to show it.   Based on my examination of design of 2001 SD, I also concluded this well- made coin had a design of 2002 reverse with added D and 2001 obverse.

With respect to 1992 1/10 and 1/20 oz. gold panda high 2, IMO, they are “highly doubtful version”. These two coins shown up in the market place also in a very strange way, similar to 2001 SD, from an exclusive source. NGC certified three pairs of these coins in three separated submissions. The odd is just too small to have any collector to own both 1/10 and 1/20 oz. high 2 version. In addition, all high 2 coins are not well-made, have some surface defects, extra material next to the 1/10 and 1/20 and lines are thicker.
 
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7609.0


Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2017, 07:45:17 PM »
It's easy to say a coin is doubtful given the lack of documentation as you state.  But a coin can just as easily be genuine given that same lack of documentation.  Trial strikes are not uncommon in modern china coins and several do exist for circulating coins;

Mint officials perform a trial strike in order to test the dies, before the production run begins. The coins obtained from these strikes are sometimes used for presentation purposes, or more often just recycled by the mint. Occasionally, a few of these coins may make their way into the hands of collectors.

Modern Chinese trial strikes are usually made on a metal blank similar to the one which will be used for the production coins. Sometimes trial strikes are made on blanks of a different metal composition.

Chinese trial strikes are unique in that they always have a trial stamp -- a two-character Chinese inscription (see photos above). These two characters literally mean ‘sample coin’.

Mintage figures are not available for the earlier, pre-1989, trial strikes, however there were possibly less than 100 produced for each coin type.  From 1989 onwards, the Chinese mint began producing trial strikes in larger numbers, up to 18,000 pieces per design, for promotional purposes. These uncirculated coins were distributed in small plastic display holders of various designs. In several years, there were also proof trial strikes minted.

Numismatists in China believe that many of the trial strike pieces ended up in general circulation, as the actual availability does not match the supposed supply. Thus, the prices paid for good quality examples can be quite high.

In my opinion, the collecting of high-grade examples could be a very interesting and worthwhile specialty for the adventuresome numismatist.

But for pandas how many trial strikes have we seen....maybe one or two only related to the original 1982 design, but do more exist....I would think so.

Also regarding 1992 one important aspect for the high 2 was that there was a "major" design change you may or may not be aware of.  On the obverse ( temple of heaven) side an interior circle around the heaven was addded.  This caused a major design change for the date which went from horizontal to circular.  IMHO this probably caused design issues that resulted in various styles of dates to be experimented with. 

If one was to counterfeit a coin why only make a handful of coins
, in gold no less, and hope the market accepts that coin as rare....this theory makes absolutely no sense.  It would be more fortuitous to counterfeit a popular expensive coin, not something obscure.


Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 07:01:00 AM »
How silly would NGC look now if they got 1987 and 1992 wrong;

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6159/ngc-anniversary-medal/


Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Karma: 34
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2017, 07:34:00 AM »
NGC 30th Anniversary is not available outside of China......

Online GoldenLord

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: 13
Re: Chinese Error Coins & Medals
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 01:38:17 PM »
Mother's Day Panda 2017 Struck Thru