Author Topic: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?  (Read 3645 times)

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Offline minter007

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Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« on: May 25, 2017, 11:58:08 PM »
 I recently noticed that the Pandas are always selling well, is it a good investment?

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 12:10:37 AM »
Silver pandas are not one class of coins. There are many types that can be grouped based on a number of different characteristics.

You have the 27g early proofs, the 89-96 proofs, the '89-17 1 oz mint state coins, the 5 oz and 12 oz coins, expo pandas, and silver panda show medals. Each of these types has a different collector base.

Many of these coins have been sitting  (unloved) on shelves for 4-5 years without significant price action while many gold pandas have been flying.

So are silver pandas a good investment? Some may turn out to be, but likely not all. Of course, it depends on what you buy and how much you pay for it :)

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 01:44:27 AM »
Silver pandas are very tough investment to make money on.  I tired doing it for several years and barely broke even despite my knowledge, connections and low grading fees.  In addition, silver can develop unattractive toning or white spots of death which can destroy 25-75% of the coins numismatic premium.  Finally, silver pandas are a favorite target for counterfeiters with some counterfeits that are really good, even the grading companies get fooled on some years. 

There is some interest in China to make master sets of silver panda, which will make 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987 more valuable over time, but those coins are already overpriced relative to their mintage, so I don't know how great the upside will be.

In my opinion avoid unless you are collector and don't mind breaking even or losing money over the long term.  I have sold thousands of silver pandas over the years and currently own just a few 1983-1985 for my personal collection, all the other years I just buy and sell fast.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 11:06:32 AM »
I am pro silver pandas and this is why.....
-Silver bullion today is about 75 to 1 ratio to gold.     Price of 1 oz of gold = 75 oz of silver...         75 to 1
-The miners say the actual ratio out of the ground is 10 to 1.      1 oz gold and 10 oz of silver...     10 to 1
-In a slow market like today, spots mean a lot.     Conserved silver reduces chances of spots.     
-In a upbeat market i have seen heavily spotted silver pandas sell for more than 1/2 price of no spot pandas.      Even Arif once posted selling a bent silver panda kilo a few years ago for a decent price during a upbeat market....
-My posts due to readings on line like Koos Jansen articles say China owns 20+ tons of gold.   The US claims 8+ tons but many including Mr Trump says the US sold our gold years ago.    It was posted here billboards in Asia bragging that the Yuan will be the next world reserve currency.    He who owns the gold makes the rules so silver pandas can only go up as they are minted in China.    Again, the US is bankrupt because we sold our manufacturing overseas to mostly China so they now will be a wealthy country.    The USD is laden w/ debt and derivatives or weapons of financial destruction.   No disputes yet to Koos Jansen's articles that i know of...
-Some time ago i posted silver bullion will easily rise to $1,000 oz.   Fortunately i was not put into a straight jacket and locked up but the day is not over yet.     I also posted articles that silver bullion will go to $10,000 oz based on simple math.....
-Years ago articles stated London Gold Price Fix or COMEX, big banks had 100 paper oz to 1 physical real oz of gold/silver...
Today they say 517 paper oz to 1 physical or real oz of silver.   Paper gold/silver is used to manipulate prices down so the USD still has value.   Have you seen bitcoins go to the moon?   The world is looking for USD alternatives...
-The Shanghai Gold Exhange was thought to change gold price but it is for domestic market only.    Today we have the Hong Kong Gold Exchange that is based on physical silver/gold and going world wide.    It opens very soon...
-75 to 1 VS 10 to 1 is a multipier of 7.5?    $18 oz silver bullion X 7.5 = $135 oz
-517 paper X $135 oz = $69,795 oz physical or real silver...   Maybe this is a bit too much so lets drop the 7.5 multiplier...
-$18 oz silver bullion X 517 paper = $9,306 oz for physical or real silver bullion.....This means past articles were right in my mind anyhow...
-Silver pandas will go multiples higher because they are minted in China and China owns the gold.     As the USD goes down so will rare US coins is my opinion....
-This is the basics for silver today.    Early year MCC silver is best such as the big 3 or 1983, 84 & 85 silver pandas.   Do not overlook the 1984 to 1989 Hong Kong Expo silver pandas too as they have about 1/10 of planned mintage of the big 3.   Many other rare silver pandas and varieties....All other Chinese silver should be considered as long as they are graded....
-I have recommended small gold/silver for years as it will be much easier to trade for goods.    Instead of buying a 2017 1 oz gold panda, why not buy 20  1/20 oz gold pandas?    How about 10  1/10 oz gold pandas?     Small silvers are very good too and i like the US junk silver dimes.    About 12 to 14 dimes per oz of silver.    Fractionals can be a medium of exchange while the larger and rarer gold/silver will be good for large expenses or bragging rights.....
-Gold will always be priced higher then silver but the gain % for silver is probably greater as the paper market unwinds.    Fall in love w/ silver pandas and you cannot go wrong......


Offline jWaltz

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 01:44:35 PM »
The Chinese Silver Panda is what we call a semi-numismatic coin. Meaning it has some numismatic value since its design changes every year. I'd suggest you buy the bars (with the lowest premium) and also some of these panda coins. And when you get the coins, get the whole sheet of 30 like what you see below:



What you see above is the 2015 Chinese Silver Panda (2 sheets of 30 coins each). Why get the sheets? Because they are rarer to find and hence will fetch higher prices than individual coins if you intend to sell them on ebay. Each sheet comes with a unique serial.


Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 09:39:48 PM »
I think that several dates of silver Pandas are difficult to find, especially in the highest grades. This may not make much of a difference for now, while interest in silver is tepid. If and when there is another bull market in silver, however, and demand picks up the market could quickly get really interesting. This is not investment advice, just an observation.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com


Offline ccl

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 11:35:04 PM »
we can't imbed an interactive chart from CCL onto CCF because iframe is disabled, so we have a static image with a key.

Shown are the last 5 years of sales of ungraded 1 oz silver pandas (1989 to 1998, both sm and lg date varieties).

My takeaway is that they generally underperform other MCC. I did 'invest' in some NGC MS70 from 2013-2015 around $50/per. We'll see.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2017, 12:21:26 AM »
Just as observed above the 15-30 coin trays of silver panda coins seem to appreciate with time; that may be the way to invest in post-2010 silver panda coins if you are so interested. However, the uncertainty of silver spotting problems weighs heavily on the mind about the future value of the coins. Sheets of small denomination gold panda coins are more portable and will resist surface deterioration more than silver coins.

The larger question is how good an investment coins are. I know there are varied opinions about this issue. It is a different issue if you actively trade in coins; your business grows based on your turnover and the margins you sell at. You will also do well if you have inside/pre-knowledge or you are astute/courageous and can figure out things better than most others.

I have a more modest requirement of my coins; that they maintain their value as a group and hopefully increase value ahead of the inflation rate. I tried active trading once!

Some of your buys will bomb while some soar. Once in a while you may chance on a diamond in the rough!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2017, 09:18:33 AM »
I am really not trying to push silver Pandas, but since the question was asked and the most recent years have been presented as representative, or suggestive of future prices, I must demur. Here are prices of silver for the last six years:

May 2011 $45
May 2012 $30
May 2013 $24
May 2014 $20
May 2015 $16
May 2016 $18
May 2017 $17

Every year since 2011 was substantially lower than the year before until a floor was hit in 2015. Not much has happened since, except the price stopped collapsing. Now it's just boring. With that trend as a context, I would expect very few silver coins to show positive returns. Anyone looking to make money in silver Pandas during those years probably got burned. That is what is sometimes called a shakeout. But as they say, to everything there is a season. I expect there will be some up seasons in the future and the returns on most silver coins will look a whole lot better at that time. If anyone is still interested in silver Pandas, it is my feeling that the time to buy them is when the market is stone cold and you can't find a friend of theirs anywhere in sight.

As Nick Brown always said, "Collect, invest, have fun."

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com


Offline aragog

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2017, 03:15:21 PM »
As it was said above, panda coin market is liquid, but it is not that easy to make money. Unless you get rare coin variety in a pile of coins for normal panda price.
But you never know. As it is now with Thailand coins. I had a few just for fun, and was really surprized by their price surge almost 10x in a less than a year.
pewrsonally, I love design of panda coins and have them in my collection, but do not expect that its price will appreciate much.

Offline minter007

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2017, 04:03:19 PM »
Thanks for all the advertises. My friend is going to do a small b2b business with Chinese coin collectors since he read the article, and I was just looking for something useful. Didn't expect such many kind replies. Silver Panda is definitely worthy collecting!

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 06:34:16 PM »
jsminest        listen to Bill Holter make comments.        China owns the gold.     Gold/silver minted in China will be the best of new money.....   

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Is the Chinese Silver Panda a good investment?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 11:07:44 AM »
Read the comments by Peter on the new Pricepedia.      It mentions silver pandas.     You do not have much time to buy the pandas you want at today's low prices.....
The Master Manipulators may drop bullion another time or two to save the USD.    From what i read that is coming to a end and bullion will soon be priced at market value.....