Author Topic: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product  (Read 29437 times)

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Offline eric

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 12:43:50 AM »
I believe all Small D 2001 panda coins are genuine. It's not possible to stamp D on a regular 2001 panda so to creat Small D.

I don't think they are saying the D was an aftermarket stamp, they are saying the entire coin was minted by a private mint.

If it's true, it's a pretty huge scam.

Offline eric

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 12:49:57 AM »
What will happen to the value of the small D?......

If the news is true, the value will plunge.

Here's an interesting WHAT IF... (I don't think this is the case, but...) what if this is fake news? Maybe someone is going to pick up hundreds of small D's for $50/each, then just wait for the fake news to blow over...  Just like the stock market shills that happen in forums all the time.

Offline eric

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 12:54:27 AM »
In China it was known that small D was not an official issue, what I didn't know was it was made by a private mint, rather than special order by say a bank or distributor. 

How could it not be official if it was 10 Yuan? If it's real currency it's official isn't it? Otherwise it's not just unofficial, it's counterfeit, right?


Offline wg

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Offline aragog

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2017, 02:02:36 AM »
Similar to Imperial and Republic coins produced at private mint, it can be identified as "Fantasy Coin".
The difference is, this Panda is legal tender currency, and it is sort big crime...

Offline format

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2017, 02:21:55 AM »
I don't think they are saying the D was an aftermarket stamp, they are saying the entire coin was minted by a private mint.

If it's true, it's a pretty huge scam.
Come on, I have studied this small D for years, all I can tell is that it's from shenzhen mint for sure, cannot be fake! If they make fake small D coins, the fakers can do anything and they can be very rich, so the only possibility is that this small D is from shenzhen mint back to end of 2000 or 2001, I dare to say it, there is another reason, as I have seen mint sealed sheets(2~4 sheets from a opened mint package), with mint marks and seals, outside paper seals as well, the samething you can see for large D (normal versions), everything shows such small D cannot be fake.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2017, 04:33:48 AM »
Sorry wrong link. This is the correct one. Hippanda and dynamike 51 questioned the authenticity of this coin at the beginning.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.0

A very unfortunate development, really.  A few members on CCF were pumping the "new variety", and a few caught a whiff of the raging pump and paid well over $1K /each.  They "invested" in a rumor and lost money while the sellers raked in the windfall.  There's a lesson to be learned here.

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2017, 04:47:55 AM »
In China it was known that small D was not an official issue, . ....
I don't agree with it, here at China, among Chinese collectors, this small D is recognized as a rare variety. Its price is very high, hard to find so some people just spread false information about this small D. If you compare small D and large D by using a 20 or 30 times magnifier, compare everywhere: temple, panda hair... You will have a clear conclusion that they are identical coins except the D mark, that is also what exactly PCGS and NGC did their jobs to recognize and to slab small D, and it's hard to image the faker can steal the die from shenzhen mint and made their private coins at their own workshops just for fun, it's just too crazy, you know back to 2001, such D mark coin is around 80 RMB, does it make sense to make fake of a cheap coin back to 2001?

Offline wg

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2017, 05:28:32 AM »
maybe "privat minting" was done 2010 or 2011
take some 2001 sheets and hammer a "d" isn't so difficult, or?
remember 1992 p and 99 bu panda.

btw.
 look inside the three p.a. books .... there is no small "d"


Offline pandamonium

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2017, 08:10:36 AM »
Interesting comments, i wonder what the future holds for other MCC........   Semi immature market so lots to learn...

Offline trozau

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 08:11:09 AM »
maybe "privat minting" was done 2010 or 2011
take some 2001 sheets and hammer a "d" isn't so difficult, or?
remember 1992 p and 99 bu panda.

btw.
 look inside the three p.a. books .... there is no small "d"


I only have the third edition of the Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyers Guide book and the chapter on varieties has the 2001 large D and small D silver.
trozau (troy ounce gold)
honi soit qui mal y pense

gold - the barbarous relic!

Offline wg

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2017, 08:20:07 AM »
Quote
I only have the third edition of the Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyers Guide book and the chapter on varieties has the 2001 large D and small D silver.
thanks .. you are right.
my mistake, i didn't check the varieties.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2017, 10:00:25 AM »
While I have to respect the opinion of Zhao Yan Sheng given his past positions within the Mint....I have to respectfully question the fact that btw NGC and PCGS approx. 250 small D's have been graded.  Are we saying that btw the two most highly respected grading companies in the world, they got it wrong?  Its one thing to say that you cannot find any mint evidence of the dies, etc. but how does that lead to say it was minted by a private mint?  Does he have evidence of this....not sure.

I think its time the China Mint step up and start revealing information about many things as opposed to leaving collectors in the dark ( I cannot stress this enough). 

How can the China Mint not step in and say NGC or PCGS you are wrong.  Also, what quality control process does NGC or PCGS have before certifying a coin is genuine.  This leaves many open questions regarding all other MCC's if the 2001 small D were in fact not minted by an official mint.  I would hate to be NGC since their warranty is unlimited vs. PCGS only $1,000. 

Also, who are the experts here???  Are they in the US or are they in China??  maybe the experts should collaborate and come to a common view before information is published.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2017, 12:17:36 PM »
I am taking Mr. Zhao's argument with a huge pinch of salt. I do not collect these coins, and so do not have them at hand to examine all the microscopic characteristics. But from the way he made his assertion, I think his argument is flawed. He said that only one set of master hub was used, and so there was no way to have two different sizes for D. We don't even know at which stage that D was added. It is highly possible that D was added later than the master hub. So yes, only one master hub was used, but still there may be two different versions of D if it was added later on.