Author Topic: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product  (Read 30075 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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The article published on 5/8/17 by Zhao Yan Sheng (赵燕生) stated that 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda was made by a private Mint, not a genuine coin from China Mint.

Mr. Zhao is a well-known expert in MCC and has published many books about MCC. He was Vice Plant Manager of production at China Banknote Printing and Minting Company in 1980s and later promoted to Managing Director of Great Wall Investment Co. of H. K., a Division of Exporting of China Gold Coin Inc.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=123438


Offline poconopenn

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NGC did not certify 2001 small D until at the end of 2012

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=8281.0

Offline ccl

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Thanks poconopenn! IMO, your karma rating should be #1

Offline pandamonium

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What will happen to the value of the small D?......

Offline trozau

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What a revelation! Thanks for sharing this breaking development.
trozau (troy ounce gold)
honi soit qui mal y pense

gold - the barbarous relic!

Offline trozau

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What will happen to the value of the small D?......
Should now be considered a counterfeit/curiosity since it is found to be NOT an official mint issue.
trozau (troy ounce gold)
honi soit qui mal y pense

gold - the barbarous relic!

Offline Mirkkanen

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NGC did not certify 2001 small D until at the end of 2012

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=8281.0

Why did NGC (and PCGS) certify these coins if they were not genuine mint products? WHERE was this man for the past 5 years, and why was this info not published earlier?

Offline jedi2832

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so what do i do with the small d i spend alot money on? will ngc buy it back?

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Does NGC's warranty cover such eventuality? Because by grading these coins they essentially confirmed that they were genuine thereby possibly inducing many collectors to buy these coins. Interesting development!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline poconopenn

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NGC did not certify 2001 small D until at the end of 2012

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=8281.0


Sorry wrong link. This is the correct one. Hippanda and dynamike 51 questioned the authenticity of this coin at the beginning.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.0

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 10:31:49 PM »
In China it was known that small D was not an official issue, what I didn't know was it was made by a private mint, rather than special order by say a bank or distributor.   It will be interesting to see how NGC and PCGS handle their guaranty, is it just a label error or something more serious.   Many of the gold panda prestige sets have silver lunar that NGC now certifies, the label assigned to the coin varies with some label making it seem like a china mint issue.

The 1992 1/20 and 1/10 high 2 are also suspicious authenticity from what I have been told, which why I have avoided them.

Offline format

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 11:59:44 PM »
I believe all Small D 2001 panda coins are genuine. It's not possible to stamp D on a regular 2001 panda so to creat Small D. Silver is very soft, such stamp process will break the coin or will at least shows uneven on the reverse side, furthermore, if you check NGC census or studyig all pix of all the small D found till now, D is at exactly the same place at each Small D coin, I don't believe fake makers can manage it unless they have a real die, in other words, they were not able to stamp D at the same place at every coin. Furthermore, if they want to make big money, why they didn't create some "double D" or other more different D styles on regular no D panda to rip off? Only this small D variety? So the only explanation for this small D coin is that they are genuine coins, I believe Shenzhen Guoboa Mint was short of experience back on 2001, somehow they broke the large D die and had to use a new die to make coins, this new die's D was smaller than the old die and its D position was also not exactly the same as the old die, by using this new die, small D coins were made, and that's the only fact.
Zhao Yan Sheng wrote that he has contacted the Mint people for an investigation... But how can he contact all workers and management people at that time? Back to 2000 and 2001?? It's absolutely not possible, people on board and quit job often, he cannot find all people related to this coin back to 15 years ago, so he is telling a lie and the question is what else in his article is true.

Offline comeaux

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 12:00:07 AM »
NGC did not certify 2001 small D until at the end of 2012

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=8281.0

The article published on 5/8/17 by Zhao Yan Sheng (赵燕生) stated that 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda was made by a private Mint, not a genuine coin from China Mint.

Mr. Zhao is a well-known expert in MCC and has published many books about MCC. He was Vice Plant Manager of production at China Banknote Printing and Minting Company in 1980s and later promoted to Managing Director of Great Wall Investment Co. of H. K., a Division of Exporting of China Gold Coin Inc.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=123438

Extremely interesting development, as always ... thanks Poconopenn for your tremendous contributions. Your knowledge is unmatched & irreplaceable. Also that's an awesome link you posted below from years ago where Hippanda & Dynamike suspected chicanery, those guys always contributed big time. Enjoy Hippanda witty & whimsical comments, super sleuth amongst the best at spotting "flim flam" carnival barkers !   

For those curious what NGC & PCGS will do? Of course they'll do nothing. They graded a coin submitted from private mint. That would be my guess   


Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 12:25:19 AM »


The 1992 1/20 and 1/10 high 2 are also suspicious authenticity from what I have been told, which why I have avoided them.

You are right, I have avoided them too.

I am wondering about the 2001 D gold pandas, since they also show high and low D in all denominations, but NGC and PCGS did not designate as variety. Very strange, perhaps, they do know something.


Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2001 small D 1 oz. silver panda is not "genuine" China Mint product
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 12:30:50 AM »

For those curious what NGC & PCGS will do? Of course they'll do nothing. They graded a coin submitted from private mint. That would be my guess   



Similar to Imperial and Republic coins produced at private mint, it can be identified as "Fantasy Coin".