Author Topic: NGC comments on PCGS  (Read 1640 times)

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Offline Birdman

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Re: NGC comments on PCGS
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2017, 07:12:43 AM »
It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the PCGS headquarters this morning, listening as their leadership huddles in their war room to discuss how they are going to respond to yesterday's NGC statement.  I have a feeling they may be rolling up their sleeves for a counter punch.  And from several of the comments made in the thread above, PCGS may not have to look to far to find some ammunition. 

A curious choice in strategy by NGC leadership.  As I understood it, they were steadily becoming the preferred choice for Chinese coins, so why rock the boat?  But the statement was focused on US coins, so perhaps they felt they were losing market share there and needed a bold approach?

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Re: NGC comments on PCGS
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 11:14:28 AM »
I second this, would be very helpful!

Me too I'd like to see it

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: NGC comments on PCGS
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 05:20:19 PM »
For modern Chinese coins NGC has become very dominant, I believe mainly because the NGC slab is superior for protecting modern coins from toning and haze.  In 2008-2010 PCGS comanded roughly 10% premium for gold pandas in MS69.  Today NGC is 5-10% premium for the same coins.

For older Chinese PCGS is still dominant and a premium.  For US coins PCGS is dominant and at a premium.  For these groups of coins PCGS holder don't ruin coins with toning or haze, so they have maintained their premium. While, I haven't followed the US coin market, I have noticed some gold pandas over graded by PCGS much more often than seeing NGC coins over graded. Also, I have a lot of insight into dealer bulk submissions and PCGS is easier on these submissions. 

I suspect PCGS did something to provoke this response from NGC, rather than NGC throwing the first stone.  PCGS has a very big footprint with its diverse line of shows, web sales portal, CCE, ... and simply excluding NGC or making a private comment to someone important can easily set off a chain reaction.  I don't expect you will see a very public fight during a bear market as both companies need to work together to grow collector base.  My submission volume has dropped almost 70% in 2016 despite a great market during the first half of the year, I expect another 40% drop from 2016 levels for 2017 as many coins no longer command enough premium in ms69 grade compared to omp or omp quality raw. I am no longer going to submit coins valued below $1000 for grading, unless coin has potential to be over $1000 in the next few years.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: NGC comments on PCGS
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2017, 05:54:31 AM »
For modern Chinese coins NGC has become very dominant, I believe mainly because the NGC slab is superior for protecting modern coins from toning and haze.  In 2008-2010 PCGS comanded roughly 10% premium for gold pandas in MS69.  Today NGC is 5-10% premium for the same coins.

For older Chinese PCGS is still dominant and a premium.  For US coins PCGS is dominant and at a premium.  For these groups of coins PCGS holder don't ruin coins with toning or haze, so they have maintained their premium. While, I haven't followed the US coin market, I have noticed some gold pandas over graded by PCGS much more often than seeing NGC coins over graded. Also, I have a lot of insight into dealer bulk submissions and PCGS is easier on these submissions. 

I suspect PCGS did something to provoke this response from NGC, rather than NGC throwing the first stone.  PCGS has a very big footprint with its diverse line of shows, web sales portal, CCE, ... and simply excluding NGC or making a private comment to someone important can easily set off a chain reaction.  I don't expect you will see a very public fight during a bear market as both companies need to work together to grow collector base.  My submission volume has dropped almost 70% in 2016 despite a great market during the first half of the year, I expect another 40% drop from 2016 levels for 2017 as many coins no longer command enough premium in ms69 grade compared to omp or omp quality raw. I am no longer going to submit coins valued below $1000 for grading, unless coin has potential to be over $1000 in the next few years.

Regarding premiums, an ungraded 1994 1/2 sold on yjzx for $7k while a 69 1/2 proof sold on eBay for $6802.