Author Topic: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set  (Read 11536 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline bonke

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
  • Karma: 34
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2018, 04:05:21 PM »
CuNi?  I doubt it.  I previewed the medals in Hong Kong a few days before the auction.  They looked like aluminum in color and finish.  They were very, very light in weight.  Unfortunately, I was not the successful bidder so that I am unable to verify my impression.  Hopefully, the successful bidder will submit them to NGC for authentication, grading, encapsulation and a metal test.  If I remember correctly, NGC charges $75 or so per coin or medal to test metal content so this may not be realistic unless the medals are, in fact, very, very, very rare.  I would imagine they were sold to foreigners in the Friendship Stores for nominal amounts and are to be found on back shelves of elderly tourists closets.

Mark Bonke

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2018, 07:43:35 AM »
I got the info from a dealer in China whose coin friends attended the auction.     Others agree w/ you and say they look like aluminum when viewing the photos.    I trust your opinion Mark and opinion of the dealer in China so lets see what content it is IF it is not locked up in a safe for then next 20 yrs.    Time will tell.    Wish we had photos of box and maybe COA if any.    I hope the children of elderly tourists start to sell their treasures on ebay as we have seen in the past.     It is a very rare set and most everyone tells me they have never seen it before....

Offline bonke

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
  • Karma: 34
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2018, 12:31:02 PM »
Do I really care if they are aluminum or CuNi?  No.  I just gave you my best opinion based upon holding the items in my hand.

I do care if items identified in a catalog as gold are truly gold.  This holds true for silver and platinum.  As to the rest of the items made out of copper, brass, bronze, CuNi, etc., I do not care.  They were inexpensive items which were made to sell at low prices to tourists who traveled to see the world on limited budgets and wanted to bring some "junk" home to the family or as a memory of a particular location.

Mark Bonke

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2018, 06:48:27 PM »
I agree w/ your opinion for the most part.   However, Fwang also posted that some tourist medals are in demand/price depending on the artists so there are collectors that take it seriously....

USA watchdog   by Jim Sinclair & Bill Holter   "$174,000 oz gold not funny-scary"    Again China/Russia own the gold, the Yuan will rule.   This means it is very important to own Chinese money and even high demand tourist medals for Chinese buyers will have more value....

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2018, 07:07:57 PM »
Do I really care if they are aluminum or CuNi?  No.  I just gave you my best opinion based upon holding the items in my hand.

I do care if items identified in a catalog as gold are truly gold.  This holds true for silver and platinum.  As to the rest of the items made out of copper, brass, bronze, CuNi, etc., I do not care.  They were inexpensive items which were made to sell at low prices to tourists who traveled to see the world on limited budgets and wanted to bring some "junk" home to the family or as a memory of a particular location.

Mark Bonke
Some of the "junk" were designed/engraved by the best mint artists with the care and passion never seen again in the Chinese mints' history. Will any mint over the world ever produce hand-engraved coins or coin-sized medals like the goldfish and pagodas? The following tourist set was designed and engraved by a team led by Chen Jian, well before he started to work on pandas.

Judging the value of coins based on their metal can be misleading. The Xinjiang and Tibet 1 Yuan CuNi coins are priced higher than their 10 Yuan silver counterparts already. With more collectors going into circulating coins, the gap will only grow.

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2018, 11:54:35 AM »
the link below and numbered medals correspond to photos 1 & 2.


http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_609ac53d0100xhki.html
I have marked all that mentioned

1.    Soong Ching ling

2.    Sun Yat-sen

3.    Sun Yat-sen

4.    Sun Yat-sen

5.    Sun Yat-sen

6.    Sun Yat-sen

7.    The white pagoda of Maoying temple

8.    Panda gold-plated

9.    Panda silver-plated

10. Badaling Great Wall

11. Liuhe pagoda Hangchou

12. Beihai park China

13. The god of longevity

14. Reclined Budda

15. Dunhuang murals

16. Temple of Heaven

17. Bronze Galloping Horse




Photos 3 & 4   5 & 6 are of Feng's Panda & Temple of Heaven medals.     Since Fwang's translation blog of "Feng Yunming and early semi official medals" came out in 2013, i have searched for Feng medals daily.    In that 5 to 6 yrs i found 2 Temple of Heaven on ebay and zero Panda medals. 
 
1)Was Feng Yunming a jewelry designer that designed a few medals then had no impact on the MCC market?

2)Were Feng's many medals the inspiration or copied design for all the pandas we see today?    Was his God of Longevity the first?    Was his silver 12 pc Archaeological in gilt brass & cu ni (aluminum?) the first?   Many other questions when we study the photos.   

IF/When he is interviewed, hopefully w/ other early artists as they can rejog each others' memories, then we will know the truth.    Does he have early year paperwork?     Could his designs be part of the foundation of MCC?    If his medals have value in the near future, could the entire market accept medals as a very important part of the MCC collection market?     Think about these questions and you may come up w/ more.....



Several of these medals in the 1st two photos are getting listed in a day, two or three on ebay.     Seller will not deal outside of ebay.   Will post when these medals come up for sale......






Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2018, 07:12:05 AM »
Looks like Feng's Panda medals got listed   Ebay 132768509285  plus some others........

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2018, 09:15:05 PM »
Dragonzeng has 3 left, sold 2....   Ebay 153183780835    $56 each....


Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2018, 09:40:06 PM »
I get some negative comments and positive too on why anyone would want to buy Feng Yunming medals.     I have little experience....Correct me if i am wrong..

Feng medals are crude...   Some are but his are not official mint, mostly National Arts and Crafts...
Feng medals are very early year of MCC.. This is important as at least one opinion says he is the Grandfather of medals.   
Feng medals are cheap....for now yes, but so were some circ coins, republic, empire, etc... until Mr Sun's book came out.
Feng medals are only collected by few... yes, but many of those collectors are highly experienced and do not post here.
Feng medals are plentiful....no, they are low pop especially the non 5 silver sets, non gold horse.  Not enough buyers yet..

It is a good gamble to buy when MCC are early year and unknown.   Look at the 1988 Brass Pandas that were cheap and unknown until studied and information was published.  By then most were in hands of knowledgeable collectors/dealers that cashed in.

See 1st photo of 1984  35th Anniversary 3 pc set cu ni.    Ebay 153179412307  $240.50  Sold   I bought one or two of these a few years ago for about $12 ea., maybe less.   Mr Sun's book changed the market.   They look crude to me and 200,000 + mintage??   The highest mintage for a Feng silver medal is 5,000...

The 17 gilt medals (photos in previous post) were just recently discovered in one stash.    A stash of about 100 pcs and most have been sold.    A few came up on ebay, i think i counted 7 since Fwang's translation blog in 2013.    There maybe more in the China market that pop up.   Several were basically unknown.    See photos 2 & 3 of a recent ebay sale 173528670396 Galloping Bronze Horse or Kansu horse that sold for $16.50 listed as imperfect.    This might be the rarest one.   

What the market needs is for Feng to be interviewed w/ other early artists like Chen Jian, Yi Shizhong & Sun Qiling if all are around and not pushing up daisies.   Feng's former neighbor Mr Yu Fuhui would also be a good contact.   I was told that some early year artists show up at coin shows.    Interview them together to jog each other's memories would be best.    Not only would we get info on Feng's contributions but maybe valuable info on the other early artists.   

In short Feng Yunming medals have potential, are undervalued, and some are rare.    All it will take is one publication or a few paragraphs probably on a Chinese coins site first, to turn the market around for his medals......

 

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2018, 11:14:42 PM »
That cuni set of 35th Anniversary is Proof. Yours may be the MS version.

Offline UniqueCoins

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: 14
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2018, 03:39:49 PM »

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2018, 08:32:38 AM »
It looks like #10.   Can you post other side of medal?...

These gilt brass were unknown but listed in the blog provided by RAREMEDAL a few years ago.   Now we can see them compared to the blog as listed on previous page.....

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
  • Karma: 37
Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2018, 08:35:00 AM »
Also, the stash of around 100 medals found, only 3 had 1 of each.     1 Great Wall like yours.   1 Galloping Horse but another surfaced on ebay.   I forget the 3rd......