Author Topic: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set  (Read 10557 times)

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Offline pandamonium

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CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« on: January 07, 2017, 08:19:13 AM »
China Ancient Traditional Technology Exhibition or CATTE....
Won it on ebay for a whopping $42, in my price range.     It went unnoticed......
Seller mailed it 8 days late and Canada to here may take a month, so not sure if it will show up......
Photos look like gilt but it is probably aluminum.....Only box w/ 6 medals i have ever seen and experts have same opinion......
Feng Yunming medals and the only aluminum.     At this point the rarest of Feng medals.....
Notice spelling of "Traditional".     Missing a "i" so it has got to be genuine Chinese......
First photos are of this set, the last two are of the 5 medal raw set i picked up on ebay about 2 yrs ago for dirt cheap.    The set has 4 medals obverse similar as Feng's Archaeological 12 silver set....   
The 5 raw set has the Camel and Dragon not seen on Archaeological set.......
Both purchases are from Canadian dealers.   I emailed many Canadian sellers w/ photos and no positive response....
Very rare set w/ big upside.    Be on the look out for it.    Maybe high future prices will bring them out of the woodwork?     Aluminum so probably considered a oddity and tossed in a trash can.      Rare Feng set........

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 08:25:59 AM »
Photos of Feng's Archaeological 12 silver set and the 4 that match the CATTE aluminum set......Find the CATTE set!......

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 08:33:09 AM »
Oops i forgot, probably 1980.    Not Taiwan.     Please post any information you can find as this is another MCC puzzle that must be solved.......
Rarest Feng set?........

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 04:56:55 PM »
Let me clarify this post.    The Archaeological 12 silver set was posted just to compare photos to the CATTE aluminum medals......

The goal is to learn more about the aluminum CATTE medals/set.    Also members here and collectors elsewhere would like to own these CATTE medals.    By posting, maybe another set or some individual CATTE medals will be found.    It would be interesting to see how they would bid on ebay.    My guess is that they should bring a high price now that we know they are Feng's.    Do not think NGC has graded these medals.    I have no intentions of sending in my medals to NGC as it would take a long time to grade.   If you know of anyone that owns these medals please let me know, post here or put them on ebay.      We have very little information at this point.     For now, the CATTE aluminum medals could be the rarest of Feng Yunming medals.    Mintage/surviving pop is probably very tiny...... Please look for them as the price reward could be very good......Any information would be greatly appreciated.....


Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 08:47:57 AM »
Another curveball.     Set w/ box & 6 medals came in the mail.    It is NOT aluminum like my previous 5 medals.    Same size and design as aluminum.   They are gilt silver or gilt brass.     Heavy medals w/ sharp rim edges.     Set was in a safe since new so UNC.    No fingerprints.    Gorgeous set w/ like new box, purple interior w/ gilt medals.     Have emailed a few collectors/dealers, NGC and waiting on reply.    No COA, dang it.     Will take more photos and weight in a few days.     The gilt may have low spots and the medals looks like silver underneath but not sure.   Non metallic.   Hopes of solving this may take some more time.......At this point a very rare Feng set.....wish information would come out but probably 1980 so there maybe little if any information....Keep a eye out for these medals/sets.......

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 02:23:00 PM »
I have contacted many experts in the US and China about this gilt brass set.    Many have replied and others are doing more research.     At this point the CATTE aluminum and gilt brass are both Feng Yunming medals.    All agree to that.     There is no box or other aluminum CATTE medals found yet so it could be the rarest.     Another member owns a gilt brass CATTE set.     The two CATTE sets are considered to be VIP medals or Traveling Exhibition samples for foreign customers.    Either way that should make them very rare.......

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 03:05:25 PM »
I picked up this brass? Temple of Heaven medal about 2 yrs ago because the reverse looked familiar and it was peanuts.      Many are looking into this brass medal.     Some have responded and said it is Feng and others say no.     Compare the reverse photos.    (Brown dot on medal is camera reflection)     First 3 photos are of box and brass medal.   (box may or may not be correct)   4th photo is of aluminum Feng CATTE medal.    5th photo is of Feng's Archaeological silver set reverse.     All 3 look similar to me.
Many experts say Feng designed the Temple of Heaven we see on reverse of pandas.     Could this be connected to Feng's Temple of Heaven design?    IF so then it could be a important medal.     Waiting on more responses from those that study Feng in the US and China......

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 04:08:25 PM »
The Souvenir for Chinese Excavation...gilt brass
A member that owns this set wants to remain anonymous.    Not my set.    He did allow me to post.....
Seller received it as a VIP gift in 1984 from Chinese businessman.   
Again these are VIP/Traveling Exhibition sales samples for foreign countries.     Low mintage & rare....
These sets were shipped abroad so not found in China but rare singles can be found....
It was posted that China Mint struck brass first then silver.     Feng's 1979 Archaeological 12 silver set was also struck in brass and put into 6 piece VIP sets....
2 medals are different from my CATTE set so that should verify that brass was also struck...
Several members here are actively seaching for these VIP/Traveling Exhibition sets...

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2017, 04:10:25 PM »
Feng set...

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2017, 04:13:01 PM »
oops, clicked the wrong button...

Offline poconopenn

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 09:00:01 PM »
Where did you find that Feng Yunming to be associated to those medals? I do have the list of designers and engravers employed by China Mint from 1979 to 1990. Feng Yunming is not in the list.

One of the four designers and engravers for bronze ware set is 童友明 (Tong Youming). Perhaps, somebody had mistaken Tong Youming as Feng Yunming.  The gold set was issued in 1981 and silver set in 1990. IMO, none of the medal posted and mentioned above were designed by Feng Yunming and most likely they were not made by China Mint if they were issued in earlier 1980.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 09:05:58 PM »
I also asked why the coins (your photos) were different from the medals when the design was similar.      I have been in contact w/ several members here and dealers in China.    So i trust their opinions.     Will message you some contact names.....

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2017, 10:15:41 PM »
Search box here or google to "Feng Yunming and Early Semi Official medals".      Photo of his 1979 Archaeological 12 silver set....  Same design but one is medals and the one you posted are coins....   Who designed them first?   

Offline fwang2450

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2017, 02:10:08 PM »
These gilt sets were made by Feng Yunming, as the designs are the same as in the silver set to his credit. Also these Feng Yunming sets pre-date the China Mint Bronze Ware sets. It is likely that the China Mint designers took their cue from Feng's designs.

Having said that, I seriously doubt Feng's medals were VIP gifts. More likely they were sold in souvenir stores around China for foreign visitors in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Printed text on the inside of the cover of several of his sets does contain the word "souvenir". I am providing the picture of another set from him below. In his diary, he mentioned that (Beijing?) Gardening Administration ordered panda and Great Wall medals from him. I would infer that those medals were intended for sale in the souvenir stores of the Garden Administration. This also accounts for the absence of such medals in China. They were too expensive for the ordinary Chinese at that time. Only foreign visitors could afford them.

Artistically, Feng's medals are on the crude side. The artistic appeal of the China Mint Bronze Ware sets is way greater than Feng's similar set. But then Feng designed the 12 medals all by himself, while the China Mint sets were designed by various artists, who would have enough time to perfect their designs. Feng is better respected as the pioneer of modern Chinese medals, and his medals are worth studying as such. Exaggeration of the importance or value of his medals is unjustified.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: CATTE aluminum Feng Yunming set
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 07:01:21 PM »
Thanks for your post, Fwang.   It is always interesting to read your opinions.   The exaggeration of importance or value of Feng's medals maybe unjustified for now but lets see how this market plays out.     When i started collecting 6 yrs ago, us new collectors were given a lot of false information on what to collect and what not too.    In 6 yrs many publications/information came forward and the priorities of collecting changed greatly.   I am not blaming anyone, as this market was very immature then.    Who knew what would be of value in the future?    Lets see what happens in the next few years as more publications/information will come forward.    For me and many other collectors, the Grandfather of medals will have value in time.   Again, let this market mature and revisit our opinions today....

Since you view Feng medals of possibly not having importance, would you be interested in selling the set you have in the photo for a fair low price?   :confused1:     Please keep me in mine.......