Author Topic: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay  (Read 7717 times)

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Offline jc888888888

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1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« on: September 19, 2016, 06:26:06 PM »
Very strong prices on a variety of 1/10 gold panda,s sold on ebay last night  .....I am also getting an unusual amount of inquiries from China  all ms 69 ngc   2008 $296   2004 $333 2001 $290 2000 frosted  275  1999 p-1 $310 1994sd $501  etc    any insight

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 08:02:46 PM »
To me, those are not strong prices. They are not anywhere near historical highs . . . rather they are recent average prices, are they not?

I can remember 2008 and 2001s going for $375-$400, 2004s for $500, 1999 P1 for $550, and 2000 for $400.

I'm talking about graded coins. Were the coins you reference graded or OMP?

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 11:14:36 PM »
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 05:33:54 AM »
Yes I agree with both you guys prices in general are weaker than in the past ,I guess I did not articulate my post correctly ,I more or less meant to say ,it seems like they are moving in a better direction .... I just sold a 1983 1/10 ms69 for $250 .... and activity has seemed to pick up

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 07:05:45 AM »
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 

IMHO I always felt that 2002 was overpriced.  It is always available whether OMP or graded.  I see far less 2006 than 2002.  Supply seems to always outstrip demand for this coin. 

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 04:55:25 PM »
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 

prices for everything seem weak now, don't they? it would be nice to hear your opinion on what's going on in the market at a time when things usually start picking up.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 11:19:01 PM »
The market is weak because no new orders for master sets at the moment.  Banks have enough of them on hand, once they sell out, then things will pick up again.  

On the buying front September was very low volume, except the long beach show I was able to buy a nice collection of 30x 1/2s, last week nothing came in, Monday and Tuesday this week 8 transactions, 3 from dealers I have never done business with, which indicates to me the other dealers have stopped buying which opens the door for me to build relationship with new sellers and allows me to lower bid prices for many coins.  I think a lot of people dump coins if they think the fed is going to act in a way that is bad for gold (meeting is tomorrow), which is why the last two days were busy.  On the selling front haven't sold any coins since Long Beach show, which tells me I have to lower my buy prices so I can eventually lower my sell prices.  

When markets move up or down in a straight line for a few weeks it creates opportunities if you have courage to step up and buy or are prudent to take profits.  In January-April market trended up and I was paying 95%-150% of price guide prices, during May-June market peaked or flattened, I was paying 80%-95% of price guide prices, August-September prices are declining and I am paying 65%-80% of price guide because I want to average down my prior months purchases so I can lower sell prices accordingly.  It is during this down period where the best opportunities to buy rarer coins presents itself, because there is no competition from other dealers who are primarily buy and sell, while I tend to be buy and hold during these periods.  If you missed opportunity to buy 1/2 or other sleeper coins, now is the time to start looking with a 6-12 month hold horizon.

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 09:45:51 AM »
The market is weak because no new orders for master sets at the moment.  Banks have enough of them on hand, once they sell out, then things will pick up again. 

On the buying front September was very low volume, except the long beach show I was able to buy a nice collection of 30x 1/2s, last week nothing came in, Monday and Tuesday this week 8 transactions, 3 from dealers I have never done business with, which indicates to me the other dealers have stopped buying which opens the door for me to build relationship with new sellers and allows me to lower bid prices for many coins.  I think a lot of people dump coins if they think the fed is going to act in a way that is bad for gold (meeting is tomorrow), which is why the last two days were busy.  On the selling front haven't sold any coins since Long Beach show, which tells me I have to lower my buy prices so I can eventually lower my sell prices. 

When markets move up or down in a straight line for a few weeks it creates opportunities if you have courage to step up and buy or are prudent to take profits.  In January-April market trended up and I was paying 95%-150% of price guide prices, during May-June market peaked or flattened, I was paying 80%-95% of price guide prices, August-September prices are declining and I am paying 65%-80% of price guide because I want to average down my prior months purchases so I can lower sell prices accordingly.  It is during this down period where the best opportunities to buy rarer coins presents itself, because there is no competition from other dealers who are primarily buy and sell, while I tend to be buy and hold during these periods.  If you missed opportunity to buy 1/2 or other sleeper coins, now is the time to start looking with a 6-12 month hold horizon.

once again, a giant thank you for your insightful and informative post!

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2016, 12:27:03 PM »
I've been becoming more attracted to these coins again. I saw a flattening after the hype coming but who knows when it will pick back up. Right now, I'm at a hold on Pandas letting them marinate a bit. I tried to pick up some of those auctions but I was outbid. Prices are a bit softer now.

Personally, I've been focusing on bullion vs. Pandas. Rather than buy at highs coming down. I'm buying down on the way up.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 11:30:50 PM »
I've been becoming more attracted to these coins again. I saw a flattening after the hype coming but who knows when it will pick back up. Right now, I'm at a hold on Pandas letting them marinate a bit. I tried to pick up some of those auctions but I was outbid. Prices are a bit softer now.

Personally, I've been focusing on bullion vs. Pandas. Rather than buy at highs coming down. I'm buying down on the way up.

Even as bullion play there is a suggestion that current year Panda (Gold) coins may post more returns (premium over spot) if held for more than one year. In order words you not only gain from an increase in spot price of gold (assuming you bought at the lows) but you get an increase in Numismatic premium. The attached table shows a cross section of current prices at APMEX for the 1oz American Gold Eagle coin as well as the 1oz Chinese Gold Panda coin.
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 11:50:25 PM »
Good luck getting anyone to pay you  $1600+ for a post 2010 panda. APMEX is insane. I doubt I could sell any of those coins for more than $1475 in this market.


Offline Honus

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2016, 10:02:06 AM »
Ebay post-2010 sold listings:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-China-Panda-Gold-500-Yn-FIRST-STRIKE-MS-70-by-PCGS-1-Oz-0-999-Fine-Gold-/331954281072?hash=item4d4a045a70:g:pTAAAOSwbsBXoOAR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-CHINA-500-YUAN-1-OZ-AU-999-GOLD-PANDA-PCGS-GRADED-MS70-COIN-BULLION-500-YN-/222225388050?hash=item33bdaa5212:g:TmMAAOSwEOxXP0rM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-China-Panda-500-Yuan-1-Oz-Gold-Coin-Mint-Sealed-/222194688814?hash=item33bbd5e32e:g:~XYAAOSwRgJXkbRh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-China-Gold-Panda-1-oz-100-Yuan-PCGS-MS69-/301855600373?hash=item4647feeef5:g:xTgAAOSwImpXpTEq

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-China-1oz-Gold-Panda-MS-68-PCGS-/172284433329?hash=item281cf3d3b1:g:X8QAAOSwRgJXlwSg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-China-Panda-500-Yuan-1-Oz-Gold-Coin-Mint-Sealed-/222194666450?hash=item33bbd58bd2:g:ecQAAOSwIgNXkakb

KOT, your post was about how current-year bullion coins might offer better returns if held for a year.   Those links don't support that hypothesis.   

With link #1, you have to take into account the price of gold in that year.  2011 is when gold peaked over $1900 per ounce, and the original purchaser of that coin may actually have paid close to the selling price you see on eBay.  There may not have been any profit on that sale, and there may actually have been a loss, and that's before even accounting for eBay and PP fees (between 9-13%, depending on whether the seller has an eBay Store).   

Link #2, same exercise.   Link #3, coin was relisted, then pulled, so can't use that.  Link #4 is for a 31-year old coin.  Link #5, same as link #3 - relisted then pulled.   Link #6 was a Best Offer sale, $1800 wasn't the actual sell price (you can't see this in the listing, but you can see it in the feedback) so we don't know what that coin sold for.

Which isn't to say that you can't make money buying current-year Pandas, but we're many many years from knowing if that strategy will pay off, and like you say it may simply pay off because of a rise of the price in gold, even if there is no expansion of numismatic premium.

Mirkkanen is right about Apmex's numbers.  While their pricing isn't always insane, it quite often is, and their posted prices aren't a reliable barometer.

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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2016, 10:30:23 AM »
KOT, your post was about how current-year bullion coins might offer better returns if held for a year.   Those links don't support that hypothesis.   

With link #1, you have to take into account the price of gold in that year.  2011 is when gold peaked over $1900 per ounce, and the original purchaser of that coin may actually have paid close to the selling price you see on eBay.  There may not have been any profit on that sale, and there may actually have been a loss, and that's before even accounting for eBay and PP fees (between 9-13%, depending on whether the seller has an eBay Store).   

Link #2, same exercise.   Link #3, coin was relisted, then pulled, so can't use that.  Link #4 is for a 31-year old coin.  Link #5, same as link #3 - relisted then pulled.   Link #6 was a Best Offer sale, $1800 wasn't the actual sell price (you can't see this in the listing, but you can see it in the feedback) so we don't know what that coin sold for.

Which isn't to say that you can't make money buying current-year Pandas, but we're many many years from knowing if that strategy will pay off, and like you say it may simply pay off because of a rise of the price in gold, even if there is no expansion of numismatic premium.

Mirkkanen is right about Apmex's numbers.  While their pricing isn't always insane, it quite often is, and their posted prices aren't a reliable barometer.



Thanks for comments. The original post was to examine if someone who wants to invest in bullion should buy the popular bullion choice of American Gold Eagles, for example, or buy a broadly similarly priced current year Gold Panda coin. The question is based on someone deciding to invest in bullion when the spot price is relatively low and not at a peak.

The underlying spot price will be factored into the buy and sell price of both coins. But the question is if the coin is held for some years will the Panda coin add some extra returns, in the form of increasing numismatic premiums, in addition to an increase in spot price?

My use of APMEX pricing data was aimed at equalizing whatever bias their pricing methods (high price) may have across all the coins used in the example. It is not to say that APMEX pricing is the ideal.

The eBay sale examples I used may not be clean but it answered the question posited; post-2010 1oz gold panda coins can be sold for more than $1600.

The question still remains: Can Panda coins yield extra returns if just used used as bullion?
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2016, 02:23:04 PM »
2012 1 Oz gold panda, sold for $1620 on the Bay. After 13% fees to eBay and PP, seller nets $1410.

My take on the situation:
 A bullion buyer wants to buy items that are most fungible. Pandas do not meet this criterion. Time and time again, dealers will offer you less than fair value for that Chinese crap, or you will have to take 90% of what you think it is worth to make a quick sale. Is it worth holding onto a coin for a couple of extra weeks to find the "right" buyer who will pay you your ask? Maybe for you or I, yes. But a bullion buyer? NO. They want a quick turn around. No hassle, no games, and certainly no eBay.