Author Topic: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay  (Read 5557 times)

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Offline jc888888888

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1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« on: September 19, 2016, 06:26:06 PM »
Very strong prices on a variety of 1/10 gold panda,s sold on ebay last night  .....I am also getting an unusual amount of inquiries from China  all ms 69 ngc   2008 $296   2004 $333 2001 $290 2000 frosted  275  1999 p-1 $310 1994sd $501  etc    any insight

Online Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 08:02:46 PM »
To me, those are not strong prices. They are not anywhere near historical highs . . . rather they are recent average prices, are they not?

I can remember 2008 and 2001s going for $375-$400, 2004s for $500, 1999 P1 for $550, and 2000 for $400.

I'm talking about graded coins. Were the coins you reference graded or OMP?

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 11:14:36 PM »
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 05:33:54 AM »
Yes I agree with both you guys prices in general are weaker than in the past ,I guess I did not articulate my post correctly ,I more or less meant to say ,it seems like they are moving in a better direction .... I just sold a 1983 1/10 ms69 for $250 .... and activity has seemed to pick up

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 07:05:45 AM »
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 

IMHO I always felt that 2002 was overpriced.  It is always available whether OMP or graded.  I see far less 2006 than 2002.  Supply seems to always outstrip demand for this coin. 

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 04:55:25 PM »
The prices are really weak for 1/10 and 1/20 right now.  2002 1/10 MS69 sold for $1476, that is a multiyear low. Chinese have stopped building 1/10oz series sets and demand has dropped accordingly. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-2002-China-G50Y-1-10-Oz-Gold-Panda-NGC-MS69-Chinese-50-Yuan-KEY-DATE-/112130520982

I have too many 1/10 and 1/20 right now and plan to do the unthinkable and list coins on ebay just to bring inventory back down to reasonable level. 

prices for everything seem weak now, don't they? it would be nice to hear your opinion on what's going on in the market at a time when things usually start picking up.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 11:19:01 PM »
The market is weak because no new orders for master sets at the moment.  Banks have enough of them on hand, once they sell out, then things will pick up again.  

On the buying front September was very low volume, except the long beach show I was able to buy a nice collection of 30x 1/2s, last week nothing came in, Monday and Tuesday this week 8 transactions, 3 from dealers I have never done business with, which indicates to me the other dealers have stopped buying which opens the door for me to build relationship with new sellers and allows me to lower bid prices for many coins.  I think a lot of people dump coins if they think the fed is going to act in a way that is bad for gold (meeting is tomorrow), which is why the last two days were busy.  On the selling front haven't sold any coins since Long Beach show, which tells me I have to lower my buy prices so I can eventually lower my sell prices.  

When markets move up or down in a straight line for a few weeks it creates opportunities if you have courage to step up and buy or are prudent to take profits.  In January-April market trended up and I was paying 95%-150% of price guide prices, during May-June market peaked or flattened, I was paying 80%-95% of price guide prices, August-September prices are declining and I am paying 65%-80% of price guide because I want to average down my prior months purchases so I can lower sell prices accordingly.  It is during this down period where the best opportunities to buy rarer coins presents itself, because there is no competition from other dealers who are primarily buy and sell, while I tend to be buy and hold during these periods.  If you missed opportunity to buy 1/2 or other sleeper coins, now is the time to start looking with a 6-12 month hold horizon.

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 09:45:51 AM »
The market is weak because no new orders for master sets at the moment.  Banks have enough of them on hand, once they sell out, then things will pick up again. 

On the buying front September was very low volume, except the long beach show I was able to buy a nice collection of 30x 1/2s, last week nothing came in, Monday and Tuesday this week 8 transactions, 3 from dealers I have never done business with, which indicates to me the other dealers have stopped buying which opens the door for me to build relationship with new sellers and allows me to lower bid prices for many coins.  I think a lot of people dump coins if they think the fed is going to act in a way that is bad for gold (meeting is tomorrow), which is why the last two days were busy.  On the selling front haven't sold any coins since Long Beach show, which tells me I have to lower my buy prices so I can eventually lower my sell prices. 

When markets move up or down in a straight line for a few weeks it creates opportunities if you have courage to step up and buy or are prudent to take profits.  In January-April market trended up and I was paying 95%-150% of price guide prices, during May-June market peaked or flattened, I was paying 80%-95% of price guide prices, August-September prices are declining and I am paying 65%-80% of price guide because I want to average down my prior months purchases so I can lower sell prices accordingly.  It is during this down period where the best opportunities to buy rarer coins presents itself, because there is no competition from other dealers who are primarily buy and sell, while I tend to be buy and hold during these periods.  If you missed opportunity to buy 1/2 or other sleeper coins, now is the time to start looking with a 6-12 month hold horizon.

once again, a giant thank you for your insightful and informative post!

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2016, 12:27:03 PM »
I've been becoming more attracted to these coins again. I saw a flattening after the hype coming but who knows when it will pick back up. Right now, I'm at a hold on Pandas letting them marinate a bit. I tried to pick up some of those auctions but I was outbid. Prices are a bit softer now.

Personally, I've been focusing on bullion vs. Pandas. Rather than buy at highs coming down. I'm buying down on the way up.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 11:30:50 PM »
I've been becoming more attracted to these coins again. I saw a flattening after the hype coming but who knows when it will pick back up. Right now, I'm at a hold on Pandas letting them marinate a bit. I tried to pick up some of those auctions but I was outbid. Prices are a bit softer now.

Personally, I've been focusing on bullion vs. Pandas. Rather than buy at highs coming down. I'm buying down on the way up.

Even as bullion play there is a suggestion that current year Panda (Gold) coins may post more returns (premium over spot) if held for more than one year. In order words you not only gain from an increase in spot price of gold (assuming you bought at the lows) but you get an increase in Numismatic premium. The attached table shows a cross section of current prices at APMEX for the 1oz American Gold Eagle coin as well as the 1oz Chinese Gold Panda coin.
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Online Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 11:50:25 PM »
Good luck getting anyone to pay you  $1600+ for a post 2010 panda. APMEX is insane. I doubt I could sell any of those coins for more than $1475 in this market.


Offline Honus

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2016, 10:02:06 AM »
Ebay post-2010 sold listings:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-China-Panda-Gold-500-Yn-FIRST-STRIKE-MS-70-by-PCGS-1-Oz-0-999-Fine-Gold-/331954281072?hash=item4d4a045a70:g:pTAAAOSwbsBXoOAR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-CHINA-500-YUAN-1-OZ-AU-999-GOLD-PANDA-PCGS-GRADED-MS70-COIN-BULLION-500-YN-/222225388050?hash=item33bdaa5212:g:TmMAAOSwEOxXP0rM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-China-Panda-500-Yuan-1-Oz-Gold-Coin-Mint-Sealed-/222194688814?hash=item33bbd5e32e:g:~XYAAOSwRgJXkbRh

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-China-Gold-Panda-1-oz-100-Yuan-PCGS-MS69-/301855600373?hash=item4647feeef5:g:xTgAAOSwImpXpTEq

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-China-1oz-Gold-Panda-MS-68-PCGS-/172284433329?hash=item281cf3d3b1:g:X8QAAOSwRgJXlwSg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-China-Panda-500-Yuan-1-Oz-Gold-Coin-Mint-Sealed-/222194666450?hash=item33bbd58bd2:g:ecQAAOSwIgNXkakb

KOT, your post was about how current-year bullion coins might offer better returns if held for a year.   Those links don't support that hypothesis.   

With link #1, you have to take into account the price of gold in that year.  2011 is when gold peaked over $1900 per ounce, and the original purchaser of that coin may actually have paid close to the selling price you see on eBay.  There may not have been any profit on that sale, and there may actually have been a loss, and that's before even accounting for eBay and PP fees (between 9-13%, depending on whether the seller has an eBay Store).   

Link #2, same exercise.   Link #3, coin was relisted, then pulled, so can't use that.  Link #4 is for a 31-year old coin.  Link #5, same as link #3 - relisted then pulled.   Link #6 was a Best Offer sale, $1800 wasn't the actual sell price (you can't see this in the listing, but you can see it in the feedback) so we don't know what that coin sold for.

Which isn't to say that you can't make money buying current-year Pandas, but we're many many years from knowing if that strategy will pay off, and like you say it may simply pay off because of a rise of the price in gold, even if there is no expansion of numismatic premium.

Mirkkanen is right about Apmex's numbers.  While their pricing isn't always insane, it quite often is, and their posted prices aren't a reliable barometer.

Eric Liquori
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2016, 10:30:23 AM »
KOT, your post was about how current-year bullion coins might offer better returns if held for a year.   Those links don't support that hypothesis.   

With link #1, you have to take into account the price of gold in that year.  2011 is when gold peaked over $1900 per ounce, and the original purchaser of that coin may actually have paid close to the selling price you see on eBay.  There may not have been any profit on that sale, and there may actually have been a loss, and that's before even accounting for eBay and PP fees (between 9-13%, depending on whether the seller has an eBay Store).   

Link #2, same exercise.   Link #3, coin was relisted, then pulled, so can't use that.  Link #4 is for a 31-year old coin.  Link #5, same as link #3 - relisted then pulled.   Link #6 was a Best Offer sale, $1800 wasn't the actual sell price (you can't see this in the listing, but you can see it in the feedback) so we don't know what that coin sold for.

Which isn't to say that you can't make money buying current-year Pandas, but we're many many years from knowing if that strategy will pay off, and like you say it may simply pay off because of a rise of the price in gold, even if there is no expansion of numismatic premium.

Mirkkanen is right about Apmex's numbers.  While their pricing isn't always insane, it quite often is, and their posted prices aren't a reliable barometer.



Thanks for comments. The original post was to examine if someone who wants to invest in bullion should buy the popular bullion choice of American Gold Eagles, for example, or buy a broadly similarly priced current year Gold Panda coin. The question is based on someone deciding to invest in bullion when the spot price is relatively low and not at a peak.

The underlying spot price will be factored into the buy and sell price of both coins. But the question is if the coin is held for some years will the Panda coin add some extra returns, in the form of increasing numismatic premiums, in addition to an increase in spot price?

My use of APMEX pricing data was aimed at equalizing whatever bias their pricing methods (high price) may have across all the coins used in the example. It is not to say that APMEX pricing is the ideal.

The eBay sale examples I used may not be clean but it answered the question posited; post-2010 1oz gold panda coins can be sold for more than $1600.

The question still remains: Can Panda coins yield extra returns if just used used as bullion?
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Online Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2016, 02:23:04 PM »
2012 1 Oz gold panda, sold for $1620 on the Bay. After 13% fees to eBay and PP, seller nets $1410.

My take on the situation:
 A bullion buyer wants to buy items that are most fungible. Pandas do not meet this criterion. Time and time again, dealers will offer you less than fair value for that Chinese crap, or you will have to take 90% of what you think it is worth to make a quick sale. Is it worth holding onto a coin for a couple of extra weeks to find the "right" buyer who will pay you your ask? Maybe for you or I, yes. But a bullion buyer? NO. They want a quick turn around. No hassle, no games, and certainly no eBay.

Offline Honus

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2016, 05:49:02 PM »
The question is based on someone deciding to invest in bullion when the spot price is relatively low and not at a peak.

You only know this in hindsight - if gold goes to $10,000 the next year, your buy will turn out to be at a relative low.  If gold goes to $200, your buy price will turn out to have been at a relative high.  But you only know this in hindsight.

But the question is if the coin is held for some years will the Panda coin add some extra returns, in The form of increasing numismatic premiums, in addition to an increase in spot price?

That's asking someone to predict the future.  I won't ask anyone here to do that.   I've said it before and I'll say it again - if someone here starts to tell you that panda bullion coins will rise in value faster than any other coin...run the other way.

The eBay sale examples I used may not be clean but it answered the question posited; post-2010 1oz gold panda coins can be sold for more than $1600.

Yes, gross sales price, not net.  Net is the only thing you care about - the rest goes into someone else's pocket.

The question still remains: Can Panda coins yield extra returns if just used used as bullion?

If there is anyone here who has the ability to predict the future, forget Pandas...I want to know who is going to win the World Series this year!
Eric Liquori
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2016, 06:23:09 PM »
You only know this in hindsight - if gold goes to $10,000 the next year, your buy will turn out to be at a relative low.  If gold goes to $200, your buy price will turn out to have been at a relative high.  But you only know this in hindsight.

That's asking someone to predict the future.  I won't ask anyone here to do that.   I've said it before and I'll say it again - if someone here starts to tell you that panda bullion coins will rise in value faster than any other coin...run the other way.

Yes, gross sales price, not net.  Net is the only thing you care about - the rest goes into someone else's pocket.

If there is anyone here who has the ability to predict the future, forget Pandas...I want to know who is going to win the World Series this year!


Honus  THAT WOULD BE THE CUBS:)

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2016, 06:24:23 PM »
AND MIRK  your ebay fee,s are a little high..about 6% for ebay  3.3 for pay pal

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2016, 06:32:25 PM »
i would rather own a 2010 1 oz panda any day  over a piece of bullion even if i had to pay $100 over spot ... caveat  ..if you are looking to play $50 to $100 moves in the spot gold price this strategy might be flawed  ,but look at the 1/2 oz coins  2010 2009  these where spot coins for a long time   and many 1 oz   that where spot plus small premiums  per oz that have large premiums over gold spot...  I like gold and i think it is cheap  so my risk is low and my upside potential is high with the numismatic kicker:)     

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2016, 12:48:24 AM »
Pandas were white hot earlier this year.  It's been a great 2016 for pandas.  It is only rationale that we have a cooling period now. I expect prices to lag for some time. I've also slowed buys considerably but will pick up a coin here or there.  It is the natural ebbs and flows of the market.  It does not make me bearish in the least. I'll be onboard for the ride back up.  If you are taking profits on key coins just be sure you consider your replacement cost in the future. For me, selling key coins is not on my radar and if it was I would've done it during the white hot period.

Online Mirkkanen

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2016, 02:09:58 AM »
AND MIRK  your ebay fee,s are a little high..about 6% for ebay  3.3 for pay pal

I don't have an eBay Store, nor am I a top rated seller, hence 10% to eBay. An additional 3% to Paypal. 13%, exactly as I mentioned above. Your percentage may be different.

Offline Honus

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2016, 10:55:19 AM »
I don't have an eBay Store, nor am I a top rated seller, hence 10% to eBay. An additional 3% to Paypal. 13%, exactly as I mentioned above. Your percentage may be different.

Mirkkanen is correct - those without eBay stores pay hefty fees.  But even with an eBay store, certain categories are still expensive.  We have a store but still pay 9% in the jewelry category.  On a $1500 purchase (our average), that's a big chunk of money, and the customer pays all of it through higher prices.  As a result, we do very little actual business on eBay - 95%+ of our volume happens on our website and the customer saves that 9% through lower direct prices.  It's why the trading forum here, and direct websites like Clark Smith's and Arif's are so important - they allow all of us to minimize transaction costs and cut out unnecessary middlemen.  When it's time to sell my pandas, it will certainly be direct via website and this forum, not eBay.
Eric Liquori
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2016, 11:34:09 AM »
 Agreed eBay is a necessary evil to some extent it has become an advertising medium for me  both buyers and sellers don't want to pay the fees I will just say this you see an awful lot of list things on eBay and it early :-)

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2016, 11:34:56 AM »
Listings ended early

Offline silberschatzimsee

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2016, 08:23:38 PM »
For 'fast cash needed situations' i have krugers or maples so i dont care i have to wait an extra month or so until someone buys my panda for my price.

Apmex prices are a joke.

Predicting the future: Pandas could face the same fait as swatch-watches, stamps ect. So dont forget that and never bet 100% on one horse.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2016, 10:01:15 PM »
For 'fast cash needed situations' i have krugers or maples so i dont care i have to wait an extra month or so until someone buys my panda for my price.

Apmex prices are a joke.

Predicting the future: Pandas could face the same fait as swatch-watches, stamps ect. So dont forget that and never bet 100% on one horse.

Great strategy. I have had Krugers etc since 1997 for that purpose. However after a certain point one does not need more bullion unless buying at opportunistic market lows. In that case I still wonder if a current year 1oz gold Panda coin won't boost the bullion play as previously detailed. Just a thought. I shall continue to study that.

I hope APMEX reads the "complimentary" reviews.  N27

As for "Predicting the future:......"  :scared:
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Offline silberschatzimsee

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2016, 10:37:57 PM »
Yeah me too. First i built up a stock of normal bullion and then switched to the higher premium stuff.  

The only i thing came across i need some smaller fractions of the normal bullion.i will adjust that as soon i feel the price is right again.

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2016, 03:35:36 PM »
I just like bullion for the liquidity. I have a few 1 oz 2015's but no one will pay me more that $1400. It's nice having some options to sell pandas at a premium and low low stress high liquidity bullion. Only because my situation changed a little bit which may require some liquidity. With the panda market being a little soft it does make for some interesting re-entry points, but i would have to sit on them until the next wave which we don't know when might hit.

I would love to sell a 1 oz 2015 for $2100 but that's not realistic. Apmex has 3 available for $1500 but they dont really sell too well. It is nice to get some pandas though, but I can't just walk in to a place for cash, I have to wait for a month or two for that extra 6%

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2016, 03:51:49 PM »
Got it silver pro all my comments above about panda premiums  are meant for  2010 and before panda,s   I dont think it makes sense to pay any high premium for post 2010 panda,s some fractionals excluded

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2016, 03:54:18 PM »
Got it silver pro all my comments above about panda premiums  are meant for  2010 and before panda,s   I dont think it makes sense to pay any high premium for post 2010 panda,s some fractionals excluded

I'd love to sit on pre2010 panda 1oz and below. :)

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2016, 08:40:06 PM »
There so many older year gold panda that trade close to bullion yet have potential to be numismatic in the future that it makes no sense to look at post 2010 coins as bullion play.  Some of the 1oz gold panda coins I have sold in the last two months at almost bullion prices in ms68 condition are 85-88 at $25 over melt, 89-93 and 01-08 at $80-$120 over melt and 97, 99, 00 at $180 over melt.  When I set up at shows I sell these types of coins to collectors and dealers and almost always sell out in the first day of the show.  These are the best values for bullion to numismatic potential in my opinion.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2016, 06:03:07 AM »
eBay item number:142118861737  UNDER MELT HOW DID I MISS THAT:(

Offline silverpv

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Re: 1/10 gold panda,s on ebay
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2016, 12:47:44 PM »
eBay item number:142118861737  UNDER MELT HOW DID I MISS THAT:(

Probably because it was 1885...