Author Topic: Is this key date worth grading or not??  (Read 4633 times)

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Offline PandaQuest

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Is this key date worth grading or not??
« on: September 08, 2016, 10:54:40 AM »
Came across this fantastic key date yesterday and was super pumped at first glance. When I took a closer look I had a completely different feeling, super sad! Would like some opinions from some of the highly experienced ngc submitters. Is this coin have any hope for a grade other than "rim damage" ?? Also I bought this as is and didn't do the burnt re seal job it currently has. Not sure what to do with this one...

Offline UniqueCoins

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 12:49:25 PM »
Like u sayed, ist resealed.
Pherhaps someone have already graded it. I think it would be sure get the Rim Damage.
I think the coin have hairlines/marks too.

But just take the try, send it to NCS/NGC, u dont have anything to loose.

Offline Honus

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 01:17:50 PM »
I think I see this from the other side - you do have something to lose, and that is more money.   The cost of shipping both ways, the cost of grading, it may be low relative to the value of the coin but it's still money and it adds to your sunk cost for this coin.  It's not as if NGC grading and the transport costs are zero.   

If that were mine, I'd sit on it as-is until the right buyer came along.  From the front, straight on, that coin looks nice - there will be buyers that will take it just as it is.    I was thinking of that hotel in Singapore (I think that's where it was) that did the full panda set display mounted and hung on the wall picture style.   That coin would be perfect for a display like that, and someone will need it for a set where the rim of the coin won't matter or won't be an issue for the buyer.   
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 01:17:59 PM »
at least you have authenticated it ,I would send it in ......you never know  it might come back 66/67      I would not spend a whole lot of money conserving etc. but it is worth a $20.00 bill you can always crack it back out ............

Offline PandaQuest

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2016, 02:15:08 PM »
Thanks for all the input and opinions! I'm in it for $160.00 so I don't have much to lose. The bullion dealer quoted my a price off spot, so I don't think it's ever been graded. Handled most likely yes, and maybe even dropped. But beside that ding the coin looks great. I'm hoping the slow market is just a summer slow down and a new wave will come soon and move it then. Will most likely send it to NGC.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 02:29:49 PM »
160 !! no worries about dumping another $20..

Offline UniqueCoins

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 05:03:00 PM »
Pherhaps it gets a grade over MS65, better than leave it in this false omp. A buyer would u pay now the lowest Price and with pherhaps a MS-Grade u get much more.

Offline Honus

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 06:13:48 PM »
Yes, I missed the part about this being a re-seal.  Given that, and the stupid low price you paid, NGC seems the way to go.  I had thought this was an OMP original sealed coin originally.
Eric Liquori
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www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline Pandaguy

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 10:58:55 PM »
This coin will NOT grade. It will come back as "RIM DAMAGE".  That is unless the grader is blind or needs new glasses (which has happened before)!

Offline bonke

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 11:20:15 PM »
When you look at the rim damage, what do you see?  Is this a Mint error (during production) or is this a handling error (at the Mint or after distribution)?  Is there an accumulation of displaced metal on one side or the other of the damage?  Is there any light reeded design in the smooth area?  Are there file marks, suggesting someone has intentionally removed part of the gol ?

Is the weight correct?

I have a 1oz 1999 panda in my collection which is graded NGC MS68 with obvious rim damage.  Under magnification, I can see the reeds in the smooth area at a 45 degree angle to the normal reeds on the edge.  Also, I can see an accumulation of gold along the rim.  All of this suggests the damage occurred at the Mint during production.  I asked NGC to recognize this coin as an error coin.  They did not do so.

Mark Bonke

Offline tater

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 11:29:16 PM »
When you look at the rim damage, what do you see?  Is this a Mint error (during production) or is this a handling error (at the Mint or after distribution)?  Is there an accumulation of displaced metal on one side or the other of the damage?  Is there any light reeded design in the smooth area?  Are there file marks, suggesting someone has intentionally removed part of the gol ?

Is the weight correct?

I have a 1oz 1999 panda in my collection which is graded NGC MS68 with obvious rim damage.  Under magnification, I can see the reeds in the smooth area at a 45 degree angle to the normal reeds on the edge.  Also, I can see an accumulation of gold along the rim.  All of this suggests the damage occurred at the Mint during production.  I asked NGC to recognize this coin as an error coin.  They did not do so.

Mark Bonke


You beat me to the punch on this one.  It appears to almost be a very minor clipped planchet.  I feel that it is an issue from the mint.  I would send it to NCS than see if NGC will consider it as an error.  JMO

Offline Pandaguy

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2016, 08:02:25 AM »
When you look at the rim damage, what do you see?  Is this a Mint error (during production) or is this a handling error (at the Mint or after distribution)?  Is there an accumulation of displaced metal on one side or the other of the damage?  Is there any light reeded design in the smooth area?  Are there file marks, suggesting someone has intentionally removed part of the gol ?

Is the weight correct?

I have a 1oz 1999 panda in my collection which is graded NGC MS68 with obvious rim damage.  Under magnification, I can see the reeds in the smooth area at a 45 degree angle to the normal reeds on the edge.  Also, I can see an accumulation of gold along the rim.  All of this suggests the damage occurred at the Mint during production.  I asked NGC to recognize this coin as an error coin.  They did not do so.

Mark Bonke


ALL of the damage you describe to your coin could have occurred via simple drop onto the ground at any location. No matter what, that is not the "normal" condition of the coin compared to others of the same year/size. I think that the person that graded your coin was either blind or needed new glasses! A rim ding is a rim ding is a rim ding ......  Should NOT grade

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 10:16:26 AM »
I would sell as is fast and take whatever loss the market requires.  Yesterday I sold 14x ms68 quality coins for 0-10% loss so I could use the money to buy omps that will grade MS69-70.  My policy has always been sell ms68 and lower at break even or even a small loss, while keep MS69 and higher for investment.  You need to have general policy for your collection to help you make automatic decisions when off grade coins come into your collection. 

Offline PandaQuest

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 12:25:16 PM »
I get the ms69 quality aspect being a key fundamental from a collector point of view. IMHO key date coins play by a slightly different set of rules, key date investment quality coins can be bumped back to mid to lower ms 60's grade. Poconopenn posted a key date Morgan dollar study a while back that changed the way I looked at lower grade key dates as long a term investment. It'll be an interesting study on gold panda key dates performance in say 10 years from now.

BTW I'm not comparing gold pandas and Morgan dollars apples to apples, just analyzing a mature coin market.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 01:31:04 PM »
There is nothing wrong with collecting MS68 and MS67, in fact returns for those that collected the lower grades is actually better than those that collect top grades for key coins.  The most obvious example is 1995 1/2 LD, at the start of 2014 you could buy MS68 or omp for $3200 or MS69 $4200, at the peak MS68, OMP and MS69 all sold for the same price $24000 to dealer to dealer, while MS69 only sold for $26000 to retail. While the returns are better for MS68 investment, the argument for owning MS69 is the base of people you can sell to is much larger, since it includes master set builders and retail, the extra liquidity is worth having even if it means slightly lower returns for me.

Offline PandaQuest

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 04:40:53 PM »
I submitted this coin out of curiosity to see what NGC thought.

Offline tater

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Re: Is this key date worth grading or not??
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2017, 05:55:56 PM »
Well I guess its settled, rim damage.   Sorry it didn;t work out for you.