Author Topic: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research  (Read 12418 times)

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Offline Honus

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2016, 01:43:31 PM »
Hi all,

interesting discussion, indeed. I am a German collector of Chinese coins. In the last ca. 9 months, Richard Blair was so kind, to ask me to test his new service. It was a great pleasure. Maybe later I will write my thoughts about the new service.
But for now, I hope, you all will NOT use this new service ;-) Because the new service gives me a big advantage each day :-)
No joke: The message 24 hours ago, that now the new service is available for everyone was a little shock for me ... But ok, I think, 19-99 Dollar is much money for you all :-) So better you save this money :-) It is not so important, to have all the actual prices ofChinese coins worldwide. Just look on ebay or on old prices.
 :-) That is good enough. Hey, collecting coins, means fun and has nothing to do with earning money ... You like coins, so it doesn´t matter, if you buy expensive or sell cheap. Do not worry about these things, do not worry about actual price trends, changes in prices and so on. Life is too short to worry about such things :-)  By the way: Sorry for my English, I know a good friend of mine is ashamed for my bad English. Greetings to you, Bruno ;-) But as we all know, also with poor English, one can be very successfull in Germany. Example? Remember the famous English spoken speech by our very famous German EU Kommissar Guenther Oettinger:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y18MA5APZI  He translated a well known German proverb  "we are all sitting in one boat". To my mind, this is a nice picture of the actual situation in the Chinese coin market, which is like an ocean: Most collectors and European and American dealers of Chinese coins are sitting together in one sailing boat, hoping for the right wind breeze, looking with their eyes on the horizon and waiting for "land ahoy" :-)   Ok, if you like sailing the old way, that´s fine for you .. BUT:  I prefer to sit in a sailing boat with a 2000 horse power engine hidden backwards and modern GPS Systems and some other interesting features to reach my goal a little bit faster than you will. So, PLEASE, stay out of my boat :-)   Happy collecting, folks and stay away from my boat :-)

Some random thoughts after reading this...

- I like smiles, and think the world is a better place when more people smile.  But this does not apply to forum posts - when someone smiles or winks 10 times, I see red flags.

- I hope Richard Blair didn't pay for this endorsement.

- Does this person think we're sitting around waiting for squirrels to come running up with pricing data written on the insides of chestnut shells?

- Don't be ashamed of your English, I think it's perfectly fine.  But tell Bruno we also all send our regards.  Why not.

- I like the boat analogy...I hope you enjoy yours, I'm going to go play with my dinghy.  It's in the pond behind the cabin.   
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline Luxor

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2016, 02:33:19 PM »
@Honus

Wonderfull reply, thank you very much, Honus. I do like your style of writing, as well as your style of humor and irony.
SORRY for all my smileys. You are right. Usually  I do not use smiley this way. My mistake. And I do agree. This usually is not an indication for a serious message.

To give you some background information of my posting mentioned above:

As I told you, I was someone who used this service for about 9 months. I was a so called "Test person".

This morning I saw this thread and wondered about some, to my mind, negative reactions concerning the new coin service.

No, dear Honus, no money was paid for my message.   That is not the style of Richard. So by the way, this is , to my mind, an insult of one
of most respectable, trustworthy person in coin business.

I wonder about these negative reactions, because, to my mind, you all do not see the great chances lying ahead with this new service for the complete Chinese
coin market.

Think about shares (Wallstreet ...): You only can do an investment, if you do have e.g. charts, actual prices wordwide, background informations about
shares.

The so called BIG MONEY must have the chance to get all informations about an investment in an easy way.
The Big MONEY must have a "system" to watch prices, compare prices worldwide, to recognize trends etc. etc.

New persons, new money entering this Chinese coin market wanting such a system, giving them with one look all informations about
the PAST and the actual situation, to

The new system by Richard, to my mind, is the perfect system, to get the attention of the big, the so called smart money.

And if new BIG MONEY will flew into our Chinese coin market, prices will rise. And this, this is good for ME and for YOU as well.

So, no need for you as an expert to use this system. For ME it was a fantastic system.

Dear Honus, please take some time to think about my opinion. Big money is not reading this forum. I do like this forum very much.
I helped me so much years ago.
But to my mind, this market has reached a new stage! BIG MONEY! Like, e.g. in the past, the art market.

So, no need to blame me .. I am not your opponent. In this case, I am sitting in the same boat with you:

I do want to see rising prices for my collection, which also is an investment at the same time.
I do want to see new persons, new big money entering our market.

All the best - you can swim without a boat in this ocean of Chinese coins (beware of the sharks and even a hunting for the Snark ), you can use your boat or you can
use the new boat with 2000 horsepower engine and GPS from Richard. That is your very own decision.

Luxor





Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2016, 02:48:11 PM »
Luxor,

How would having this new pricing data help me, an American collector/investor with a small-medium sized collection of MCC, realize the best prices when selling my coins? I have few to no direct connections to people in China who are actually willing to PAY market prices for coins. I know, for example, that a 1992 1 oz go,d panda in NGC 69 is a $2k coin on Zhao, but nobody here at CCF or on eBay seems willing to pay that. So how would knowing the coin is "worth" $2k in China help me here in the USA, when it is only worth $1700 here?

Offline Luxor

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2016, 03:04:23 PM »
Dear Mirkkanen,
thank you very much for your reply. I wish I could answer in German language. That would be much easier for me.
Ok, I will try my best:
First, this is , to my mind, a perfect example for the benefit you can get from Richards system:
It took me 10 seconds to see the complete price development of all prices of 1 Oz Gold Panda coins 1992, small date, large date,
sold in a set of coins, sold in 69 / 68 or without grading etc. with LINKS to all auctions.
So first let me state, that your price is NOT actual. Sorry. Last auction results in China were lower. So this could be a reason for not finding an interested Chinese coin dealer. 10 seconds to check. Only 10 seconds. I do love this system.

By the way: My suggestion to Richard during the 9 months of testing was, also to work out a section for TRADING ...

By the way 2: Indeed it could be a good idea for Richard, to give big (Chinese) Coin dealers a section for introducing themselves together with email/adress etc.

I will send your idea to Richard, ok?

Best, Luxor






Offline Birdman

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2016, 03:18:51 PM »
Luxor,

How would having this new pricing data help me, an American collector/investor with a small-medium sized collection of MCC, realize the best prices when selling my coins? I have few to no direct connections to people in China who are actually willing to PAY market prices for coins. I know, for example, that a 1992 1 oz go,d panda in NGC 69 is a $2k coin on Zhao, but nobody here at CCF or on eBay seems willing to pay that. So how would knowing the coin is "worth" $2k in China help me here in the USA, when it is only worth $1700 here?

I think most people on this forum are reasonable when they are negotiating.  If someone offers you X dollars for a coin, saying it sold for X dollars on US eBay (all they can see), and you counteroffer, providing links to recent sales in Switzerland, or wherever, showing a price of X + $500, then that might be a useful tool for your negotiation.  It might persuade the potential buyer to up their offer price.

On the other hand, the person you are negotiating with might say, I don't care what it sells for in Switzerland, eBay US says X dollars and that is all I'm going to pay in the US.  It reminds me of the pawn shop scene in Trading Places https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLo7tHDHgOc

Any benefit the information provides you in negotiation must be weighed against its price.  Luxor enjoys the system, but would he pay $1200/yr for it once the testing period expires?  Perhaps the entry level version would be a useful compromise of lower price, but still good information.  If someone tries the pay service, keep us updated on the pros and cons.

Offline silberschatzimsee

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2016, 03:22:40 PM »
With those prices i will definitely stay away. Have fun with your tool, your collection must be at least 6 figures big to compensate the 1200 a year.  N21




Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2016, 05:47:45 PM »
Out of consideration for another Chinese coin index we are aware of I have been reticent about getting into the nitty gritty of this discussion. But when a long silent registrant suddenly springs into life and starts extolling the virtues of a newly hatched servicing program one starts wondering and alarm bells start ringing.

Let’s quickly dispel any notion of “the common good”; no one ever lets the light shine on something for the common good if they can corral the information for personal gain. We have seen this play out in the stock and bullion coin markets, and other situations.

The only thought I had about this new program is will it be useful for momentum buyers and sellers in the coin exchange? I don’t even know if such individuals will gain any leverage with such a service. But time will tell!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline fwang2450

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2016, 06:52:05 PM »
I would like to add my two cents to this discussion.

First, the dismissal of the service due to Richard not updating his regular website is a hurried conclusion. It would be more justified to judge the service on its own merit.

I have been working on the service, mostly as a translator and tester of the Chinese language version, for FREE in the past year. As many of you may have noticed, my own interest in Chinese numismatics has turned from precious metal commemoratives to circulating coins. (That's why I do not post much on the forum these days.) So I don't even have much to gain (unlike Luxor) from the data at my fingertips. Why have I been doing this?

Well, I have been doing numismatic related stuff for free for the past few years. I have translated for free many articles into English, and even more into Chinese, including the whole chapter on dies and die related machines in Denis Cooper's The Art and Craft of Coin Making. If something is worth doing, I don't really care much about getting paid.

I had little interaction with Richard before he approached me with a prototype of this service. I explored it, and concluded it was a valueable coin market service like none other currently available, and it had even more potential than what he presented. Of course one can dig through eBay, zhao online, YJZX to get some clue on the current pricing. I was doing precisely that. It is like checking out trees in a forest. Getting aggregated data from dozens of auction houses over the past few years by entering a coin title, presented in various forms, including charts, is like having a bird's eye view of the forest. Following is the chart of the Geyuan antiqued medal. After viewing the attached chart, would you fall for the prices currently offered on eBay? How much money will that save you?

Price exploration is just one feature of the service, although an imporant one. I don't have time to cover all the functions (such as text message alerts) and potentials of the service. Please take this advice: go in and explore it (including the price structure) before making conclusions. If you still do not like it after exploration, fine. But shooting from the hip even before seeing clearly the target will waste the bullets.

By the way, the $99/month service is not for the common folks. It is the tier for big dealers and movers.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2016, 08:30:40 PM »
The members of CCF are precisely the audience of ChineseCoinsLive.  I think it is a good idea to invite Richard to discuss the ChineseCoinsLive idea on the forum.  The data aggregation of pricing information is a tricky subject and having the founder on CCF presenting his vision and responding to member's questions are time well spend.  My own aborted efforts in a similar project with the previous SysAdmin made me appreciate what a rocky road Richard is undertaking.  We'll keep the discussion civil, but thick skin and calmness are needed to travel down this road.

Fwang2450, thanks for mentioning The art and craft of coin making.  I've being curious about the large variations in MCC for several years now and I think the reason is due to different die making practices by different China mints.  So I'm interested in the step-by-step process of die making and how the best practice varied.  It is out of print, do you know where I can purchase or borrow one?

Edit, another comment for fwang, we do have a dedicated topic area for circulating coins, not very active right now but I hope you'll post your insights there periodically.

Offline silberschatzimsee

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2016, 08:59:42 PM »
By the way, the $99/month service is not for the common folks. It is the tier for big dealers and movers.

My critizm is that the price and the coin counter needs to be tweaked. 50 different coins is a beginners collection and not an experienced one. Those 10 coins limit is under perception threshold and not an casual collection.

So i would have to switch to the 99$ a month edition if i wanted to use it properly and thats too expensive for a average joe coin collector.



Maybe introduce something like a day pass so that one can check periodically if you feel like it?


Offline fwang2450

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2016, 09:27:11 PM »
My critizm is that the price and the coin counter needs to be tweaked. 50 different coins is a beginners collection and not an experienced one. Those 10 coins limit is under perception threshold and not an casual collection.

So i would have to switch to the 99$ a month edition if i wanted to use it properly and thats too expensive for a average joe coin collector.



Maybe introduce something like a day pass so that one can check periodically if you feel like it?


I do not know all the details of the tiers and their limits. I am not sure what "10 coins" in your post refers to. The number of transactions per search? Or the number of coins in My Collection?

Offline silberschatzimsee

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2016, 10:26:39 PM »
Hi fwang2450,
I meant size of coin collection ;)

at the moment it is 10 for casual- 50 for experienced and unlimited for top tier.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2016, 10:49:02 PM »
Hi fwang2450,
I meant size of coin collection ;)

at the moment it is 10 for casual- 50 for experienced and unlimited for top tier.
Thanks for your clarification.

If you are not happy with the limit, you can propose a number you think is reasonable. I will ask Richard to comment. But it is not necessary to put all the coins into My Collection. Those that you want to track most frequently are stored there.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2016, 11:16:59 PM »
The members of CCF are precisely the audience of ChineseCoinsLive.  I think it is a good idea to invite Richard to discuss the ChineseCoinsLive idea on the forum.  The data aggregation of pricing information is a tricky subject and having the founder on CCF presenting his vision and responding to member's questions are time well spend.  My own aborted efforts in a similar project with the previous SysAdmin made me appreciate what a rocky road Richard is undertaking.  We'll keep the discussion civil, but thick skin and calmness are needed to travel down this road.

Fwang2450, thanks for mentioning The art and craft of coin making.  I've being curious about the large variations in MCC for several years now and I think the reason is due to different die making practices by different China mints.  So I'm interested in the step-by-step process of die making and how the best practice varied.  It is out of print, do you know where I can purchase or borrow one?

Edit, another comment for fwang, we do have a dedicated topic area for circulating coins, not very active right now but I hope you'll post your insights there periodically.
I have asked Richard to join the conversation here to address the concerns of CCF members.

I have PMed you about the availability of the book.

As for the circulating coin topics on the forum, honestly due to their low value and scarcity outside China, they will not attract a lot of collectors/investors in the US. That's why I did not post much on them.

Online ccl

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Re: "Chinese Coins Live." A competiting subscription for pricing research
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2016, 02:15:34 AM »
The members of CCF are precisely the audience of ChineseCoinsLive.  I think it is a good idea to invite Richard to discuss the ChineseCoinsLive idea on the forum.  The data aggregation of pricing information is a tricky subject and having the founder on CCF presenting his vision and responding to member's questions are time well spend.  My own aborted efforts in a similar project with the previous SysAdmin made me appreciate what a rocky road Richard is undertaking.  We'll keep the discussion civil, but thick skin and calmness are needed to travel down this road.
Hello, I am available for this purpose Sandac and thank you for the invite. This won't be a trial by forum but instead I will solely contribute to a useful and productive exchange regarding CCL. Best, Richard