Author Topic: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured  (Read 3669 times)

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Offline Tao-Panda

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1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« on: June 01, 2016, 03:19:36 AM »
Hello,


Does anybody know the real cause of such expensive prices for these 3 coins ?
Yes, they are key date coins for the serie... but why ?

I have been told by a german collector that the real mintage was very low regarding the planned one and by a chinese dealer that prices has been made high by big players/dealer on the market (he doesn't know about a low real mintage).
Whatever it is, my chinese friend told me that they become rarer and rarer.

Athough its price is the lowest among the 3, it appears that the round is the rarer one in high grades at PCGS or NGC, especially in PF70 grade (only 8 for NGC and 3 for PCGS).  
I do not know if this rarity within graded coins reflects a real rarity of this coin or not.
If anybody knows...
I also notice that PricePedia mentions this round Ox coin as BU but CoA, PCGS and NGC mention it as Proof.


Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2016, 06:42:12 AM »
Yes low mintage  ..2009 was the first year of the new design and for whatever reason the mint made a small run and they go a so so reception in China ...and more where never produced ..the round is hard to grade 70... Be careful of fakes the market is full of them and they are of surprisingly good quality ,know who buy from or buy graded WG had at one time posted some great pictures of side by side comparisons of fake vs genuine on this site.the colorized is faked a lot Eastern Europe is full of fakes so be careful. 

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2016, 10:08:41 AM »
Thank you for your reply, JC.

Do you have any idea of the real mintage for each ?

I also notice some amazing fake round coins...

But I have that one for comparison  :001_tt1:


Offline bape

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 11:07:00 AM »
Hello,


Does anybody know the real cause of such expensive prices for these 3 coins ?
Yes, they are key date coins for the serie... but why ?

I have been told by a german collector that the real mintage was very low regarding the planned one and by a chinese dealer that prices has been made high by big players/dealer on the market (he doesn't know about a low real mintage).
Whatever it is, my chinese friend told me that they become rarer and rarer.

Athough its price is the lowest among the 3, it appears that the round is the rarer one in high grades at PCGS or NGC, especially in PF70 grade (only 8 for NGC and 3 for PCGS). 
I do not know if this rarity within graded coins reflects a real rarity of this coin or not.
If anybody knows...
I also notice that PricePedia mentions this round Ox coin as BU but CoA, PCGS and NGC mention it as Proof.


[/quote
Hello,


Does anybody know the real cause of such expensive prices for these 3 coins ?
Yes, they are key date coins for the serie... but why ?

I have been told by a german collector that the real mintage was very low regarding the planned one and by a chinese dealer that prices has been made high by big players/dealer on the market (he doesn't know about a low real mintage).
Whatever it is, my chinese friend told me that they become rarer and rarer.

Athough its price is the lowest among the 3, it appears that the round is the rarer one in high grades at PCGS or NGC, especially in PF70 grade (only 8 for NGC and 3 for PCGS). 
I do not know if this rarity within graded coins reflects a real rarity of this coin or not.
If anybody knows...
I also notice that PricePedia mentions this round Ox coin as BU but CoA, PCGS and NGC mention it as Proof.



From what I have heard, the price has definitely been controlled by the dealers in China. IMO the current 'market' price can hardly be justified at all considering the high mintage of the ox.

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2016, 11:32:33 AM »
I suppose you wanted to write "cannot", bape.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2016, 01:36:38 PM »
The prices for these coins has actually relaxed a bit  the colorized ox was doing over $1000 in NGC 69 2 years ago ....
Forget what it says on the COA  ,the mintage is minuscule  you never see 2 for sale in the same place.... i would venture a guess that 3  do not become available on e bay in a year .........   if you wanted to buy 10 colorized ox and you where willing to pay any price ...not 1 dealer in Shanghai and I am talking all the big ones could produce them. I tried for a customer:)   the only person i know that has a significant quantity is of course WG:)
When this coin was released  I bought 12 of each variety, as soon as they where released from a friend in shanghai I think I paid $75/80  each I graded all 36 coins @ ngc I only received a few 70,s  in the plum ..these coins where direct from the mint right at initial release ..... no 70,s color or silver round    I could NOT GIVE THEM AWAY :)   when I went to sell them I was lucky I broke even .I kept a few of each that I still have.   Then 2 month,s later after I sold them I had customers asking. I went to buy more  ZERO ANYWHERE  no one in Shanghai had them. A very limited number where made  by the mint  BY THE TIME they caught on the rabbit came out and sold well that was also in the new design ...  very few where ever made

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 01:47:54 PM »
BTW  Of the 3 the colorized is the  real key   I have had very reputable Chinese dealers tell me far less than 1000 made ..who knows  but   if there was some big hoard it probably would be dribbled out in the market by now   you can look for month,s just to find 1 for sale

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2016, 01:51:09 PM »
SPEAKING OF FAKES HERE,S ONE :)Every lunar coin this seller has for sale is fake
eBay item number:231959737761

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2016, 03:11:01 PM »
12 of each !
Congrats !  N31

I'm always surprised that there is no official publication about the real mintage from China Mint or from the government... at least for coins with legal tender.
But it adds a part of mysteries.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 06:37:36 PM »
12 of each !
Congrats !  N31

Unfortunately I do not have the 36 pcs any longer :(  only 6 and the 30 I sold I did not sell for big profit I was too early :(  .if i would have held them for 18 months or so ,the market realized there was none of these colorized made and they skyrocketed ..but I had already sold mine ... my plan was to buy a few every year sell some and make a small profit and lower my cost basis on what I keep ............  I am a big lunar fan! but when the mint started getting greedy and was getting $200 plus at issue for newly mintage silver lunars I quit! the last year I bought was the goat ... I do have a couple of pretty nice NGC registry lunar sets   like I said Im a big fan :)

I'm always surprised that there is no official publication about the real mintage from China Mint or from the government... at least for coins with legal tender.
But it adds a part of mysteries.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2016, 08:56:12 PM »
The following links provide the name of distributors and coins received of each distributor for 2009 lunar series.

http://www.jibi.net/news/YGGCHMD/13_13_28_883.html

http://www.jibi.net/news/YGGCHMD/14_52_31_378.html

Based on the information, the planned mintage for the series were fully released to the distributors.


Offline jc888888888

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2016, 09:14:03 PM »
Well this will bring out some lively discussion from me :)  there is an old saying " don't believe everything you read "  here are facts and as Andrew Jackson said " Facts are very stubborn" :)   here we go:  the ox was the first of the paper cut series no one can deny that you rarely see one for sale especially the colorized and if you do it is never less than 800 to 1200 USD ,the tiger ,the rabbit ,the dragon ,the snake ,the horse,  the goat ,the monkey ALL READILY AVAILABLE and many very inexpensive none even 1/2 the price of the OX........so what explains the price difference and lack of coins ever for sale?? a prudent person would think if a coin could sell for 10 times it issue price at a minimum and 220,000 where produced there would be more coming out of  lock boxes ?? no??   

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2016, 11:18:17 PM »
One of the reason of high valuation of round and colored vs. fan and flower in all lunar series is related to the package of gold & silver set. For round and colored lunar sets, the gold coin is 1/10 oz., while for fan and flower sets, the gold coin is ½ oz. Most mid-income family inside China can afford 1/10 oz. gold set, but not ½ oz. gold set as gift for the new-born babies. Lunar coins are very popular as gift for many different occasions for Chinese, inside and outside China.

As you mentioned, 2009 colored ox is the first coin with a paper cutting design, which is originated from China and becomes the folk culture for many centuries, for colored lunar series. This new design definitely made this colored ox very special and popular among the collectors. As always, the first issue of a new designed series usually will have a higher valuation vs. later issues.

It is my understanding that all coins issued by China Mint since 2003 were made according to the planned mintage, except pandas, which have not been popular among collectors inside China, until recently.

Many recently issued commemorative coins with a mintage of 60,000-100,000 are rarely seen at eBay and have a very high valuation. For examples, sacred Buddhist mountain series (2012-2015), the 2 oz. silver coins have a mintage of 100,000 and the current valuation is in the range of $350-$450, about the same or higher valuation than silver proof pandas (1989-1996) which have a much lower mintage and seen at eBay regularly.     

Offline lonemao

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2016, 12:03:29 AM »
Similar situation for 2010 5oz silver colourised Tiger.  It is also much more expensive than similar lunars in subsequent years.

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: 1 oz silver 2009 Ox coins - Flower, Round and Coloured
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2016, 04:44:13 AM »
Unfortunately I do not have the 36 pcs any longer Sad  only 6 and the 30 I sold I did not sell for big profit I was too early Sad  .if i would have held them for 18 months or so ,the market realized there was none of these colorized made and they skyrocketed ..but I had already sold mine ... my plan was to buy a few every year sell some and make a small profit and lower my cost basis on what I keep ............  I am a big lunar fan! but when the mint started getting greedy and was getting $200 plus at issue for newly mintage silver lunars I quit! the last year I bought was the goat ... I do have a couple of pretty nice NGC registry lunar sets   like I said Im a big fan :)
No luck but see the good side of the story... you still own 6  ;)
I have 3 round and 1 flower coins.
I'm also a big lunar fan !
But when I see the collection of some members here, including you, I'm definitively a small player   :blushing: