Author Topic: Option to ncs only?  (Read 12326 times)

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Offline moosician

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Option to ncs only?
« on: April 05, 2016, 09:26:17 AM »
Sent a red spotted coin already in ngc slab for ncs only but was told that coin has to be regraded and previous grade is not guaranteed.
This is for ncs ngc service in China.
Is this so in the US also?
What if the coin comes back in a lower grade? i think that is a big risk. Even riskier if sending in a 70 coin?
Can you guys please help?
Thanks

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 10:16:39 AM »
I don't think NGC can guarantee maintenance of the same grade if the red spots occurred after previous grading and encapsulation. It is possible that the grade could drop to 68-69 after conservation. Yet you cannot sell the red spotted ms70 as it is and get the full price. Any experienced buyer of this coin will pay for it as if it is of lower grade.

I have a pcgs ms70 1/20oz with lots of red spots. I plan to replace it with a new ms70 to maintain the grade of the set it belongs to. Somewhere along the line I will send it to NCS/NGC and take what I get!

Goodluck.
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 12:17:26 PM »
I just sent in a high value (1999 serif 1) gold panda that was riddled with red spots, and which was in a 69 holder. I had it conserved and it came back to me as a 69. Didn't feel risky. I would just go for it, unless you see flaws besides red spots that you are concerned about.

Offline Deepwater

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 12:27:35 PM »
What is the reason to remove red spots if it is in the 69 holder? The red spots will come back due to the copper impurities.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 12:28:03 PM »
I believe the question here is if an MS70 gold coin with red spots can be guaranteed to maintain the MS70 grade after conservation. I don't think this can be guaranteed.
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 01:13:15 PM »
There is a wider range of tolerance and interpretation of coin features when assigning the grade of 68-69 compared to 70. More than one grader is required to assign the 70 grade to make it even more objective. Even if not acknowledged publicly a coin’s history could be one of the weighting factors. This notwithstanding it is still possible but not probable to get a 70 following conservation in the circumstances described above but I wouldn’t bet a panda coin on it!
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 01:15:40 PM »
Why remove red spots and regrade? Because no intelligent buyer will offer 70 money for a coin that looks like a 68 or 69. You'll be stuck with a coin that is illiquid unless you sell it as a lower grade coin.

I hate to say it, but maybe your coin really isn't a 70 if you are afraid that once you get the spots removed, it will come back as a 69. In that case, you might as well sell it for whatever you can get for it and find a nicer example of the same coin. There is no guarantee that your 70 will come back a 70. Grading is a gamble. Are you a gambler?


Offline silverpv

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 01:36:13 PM »
I sent in a 99 SD 1/10 with spots.. It was MS69 and came back MS70 after the regrade. I will be sending in a high dollar MS70 with a redspot for a regrade. There's no way, anyone else would consider this a 70 because it has the spot. We'll see if it does come down if the price guarantee works or if it is regraded a MS70. I will be calling NGC/NCS about this because I plan on sending in a few coins later in the week.

You do not have the option to NCS only. I did this with a few coins and the invoices were all changed to regrade at NGC on arrival.

Edit:  i just spoke with them. If you think its overgraded, you can send it in for appearance review. If its undergraded it goes for a regrade. If it is an MS70, it goes for appearance review and they will check to see what your options are.

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 01:49:39 PM »
In the past, PCGS has offered a conservation-only service (without requiring grading). I do not know if this is still an option.

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2016, 03:27:29 PM »
What are NCS costs?  I've never sent a coin in for NCS.  I recall it's something like 4% of the stated value of the coin.  Is that correct?  Also, I'm curious when you send in coins to grade, what are you valuing your coins at?  The coin's worth in OMP, as a MS69, or coin specific?  If you think your coin is a 70 is that the value you assign to it? Does anyone think if you "undervalue" your coin then you won't get a 70?

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2016, 03:33:25 PM »
What are NCS costs?  I've never sent a coin in for NCS.  I recall it's something like 4% of the stated value of the coin.  Is that correct?  Also, I'm curious when you send in coins to grade, what are you valuing your coins at?  The coin's worth in OMP, as a MS69, or coin specific?  If you think your coin is a 70 is that the value you assign to it? Does anyone think if you "undervalue" your coin then you won't get a 70?

silverpv will be able to answer all of these questions.

As for how I value the coins, I usually use OMP value. NCS costs depend on the value of the coin being conserved, as far as I know. A mroe experienced submitter can expand on this. 

"Does anyone think if you "undervalue" your coin then you won't get a 70?"
I do not think this, based on experience.

Offline silverpv

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2016, 04:02:40 PM »
What are NCS costs?  I've never sent a coin in for NCS.  I recall it's something like 4% of the stated value of the coin.  Is that correct?  Also, I'm curious when you send in coins to grade, what are you valuing your coins at?  The coin's worth in OMP, as a MS69, or coin specific?  If you think your coin is a 70 is that the value you assign to it? Does anyone think if you "undervalue" your coin then you won't get a 70?

NCS costs are 5% standard ($25 minimum + NGC Tier)  or $28 for NCS+NGC upto $300 (5 coin minimum) $50 for NCS+NGC upto $2k (5 coin minimum). The value should be your replacement cost and is specifically used for insurance purposes on return shipping. If the package is lost, your stated value is what you will get back. So, technically you don't need to report the actual market value but you can do your cost. However, if its lost, so is that extra value. The value has nothing to do with the expected grade, I doubt graders see the value of the coin. I undervalue my coins from time to time, like my 94, I will be sending it in under the $300 tier even though its ~$400 replacement cost. I paid under $300, so it belongs at $300 to me.  As long as I get back what I paid, I'm alright. I submitted another coin that was higher dollar in the lower tier and they didn't have any issues. The only issue is the stress when USPS can't find your package.

The regrade is if you have a 68/69 and you think it'll bump up to a 69/70. The appearance review is if you have a 70 and it might not be due to a spot. I'm testing the appearance review process next and see if they'll remove the spot and keep it a 70 or what may happen if not. Along with the silver NCS tests I'm doing on Youtube.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2016, 04:12:36 PM »
In addition to the above comments NCS reserves the right to revalue your coins if they feel that it is too low. If you submit larger diameter coins or medals you'll have to pay for an oversize folder. There are additional fees for things like scratch proof slabs, photos, variety designation Etc.
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Offline silverpv

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 04:13:47 PM »
In addition to the above comments NCS reserves the right to revalue your coins if they feel that it is too low. If you submit larger diameter coins or medals you'll have to pay for an oversize folder. There are additional fees for things like scratch proof slabs, photos, variety designation Etc.

This is true.. You can't undervalue lower than melt but the premium is up for judgement.

Offline moosician

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Re: Option to ncs only?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016, 08:42:57 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

I believe the question here is if an MS70 gold coin with red spots can be guaranteed to maintain the MS70 grade after conservation. I don't think this can be guaranteed.

You hit the spot.

I find it hard to believe that ngc cannot guarantee the original grade after ncs, or at least just ncs the coin without regrade. If thats the case, it means buying a 70 gold coin is a big risk because red spots might develop. It is possible to find another 70 specimen if the 70 population is not small but what if its a very low pop coin or even the only 70? There is a big chance that the only 70 coin will regrade lower thus dissapear... hmm...