Author Topic: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?  (Read 6583 times)

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Offline Giantgg

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1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« on: December 30, 2015, 06:53:38 AM »
Hi.

Recently I had  opportunity went to Taiwan for business trip a friend of mine bring me to visit many coin shop in Taiwan . I took this opportunity to purchase 5 coins ,
2 coin are 1919 and the others are 1914. Would like to know is it real or fake from experience member here.

When I reach my home I used weight and vernier caliper to measure the diameter and weight
Coin A : Weight 26.98g
            Diameter : 38.75mm
            Thickness : 2.35mm

Coin B: Weight :26.82g
           Diameter : 39.0mm
           Thickness : 2.35mm

Thanks and regards

Offline GoldMedal

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2015, 12:06:00 AM »
real

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2015, 12:42:13 PM »
Hi.

Recently I had  opportunity went to Taiwan for business trip a friend of mine bring me to visit many coin shop in Taiwan . I took this opportunity to purchase 5 coins ,
2 coin are 1919 and the others are 1914. Would like to know is it real or fake from experience member here.

When I reach my home I used weight and vernier caliper to measure the diameter and weight
Coin A : Weight 26.98g
            Diameter : 38.75mm
            Thickness : 2.35mm

Coin B: Weight :26.82g
           Diameter : 39.0mm
           Thickness : 2.35mm

Thanks and regards


Welcome to the forum.

Did you ask the seller about the hand-writing Chinese characters on the cardboard holder? The red marked Chinese characters mean "not real", and blue marked Chinese characters mean "reproduction". IMO, both coins may not be genuine.

Offline Giantgg

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 02:11:08 PM »
Hi
poconopenn,

Thank you very much . Actually for your information all the coins I bought all from different different coin shop in Taiwan in order to reduce the risk of buying fake coin as I am beginner. My friend even do not know coin only manage to bring me to the street where many big shop selling coins and send coin for grading services. I do not know Chinese character so do not understand what is written on the coin and I thought big shop never sell fake coin never ask my Taiwan friend to translate. Currently worried more coins I bought could be fake so need your help here to identified for me and also a coin I bought In Singapore small auction conduct by elder people.


Again Million Thanks !! Salute !!!
Coin A to E bought from Taiwan .. Price ( TWD 4,000~5,000  ) percoin
Coin F bought in Singapore Small Auction conducted by elder people .

Thanks and regards




Offline Giantgg

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 02:15:50 PM »
Hi
Another attachment

Offline Giantgg

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 02:17:27 PM »
Hi ,
Another attachment

Offline Giantgg

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 02:03:54 AM »
Hi ,
Please help me to verify my the rest of my coins real or not real .. Really appreciate !!

thanks and regards

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 04:27:38 PM »

Did you ask the seller about the hand-writing Chinese characters on the cardboard holder? The red marked Chinese characters mean "not real", and blue marked Chinese characters mean "reproduction". IMO, both coins may not be genuine.

I have changed my mind. The two coins mentioned previously may be genuine. The Chinese characters on the cardboard holder may mean variety, such as double die, instead of reproduction and missing leaf, instead of not real.  IMO, all five coins have very nicely stroke dentals which usually do not associate with fake coin. However, due to heavily polished surface, those coins may be graded as VF-AU details. Perhaps, just for peace of mind, you ought to submit to PCGS for authenticity.

Offline Little Finger

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 11:39:19 AM »
The hand writing on the coin flips are really cursive, can't really make them out. What are the actual Chinese characters poconopenn ?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 03:45:11 PM »
The hand writing on the coin flips are really cursive, can't really make them out. What are the actual Chinese characters poconopenn ?

空心菜 (not real) or 空心葉 (missing stem leaf)

When Chinese describe a person as  空心菜, it means this person is not real honest and has a deviated mind.

後面複打 (reverse reproduction or double strike)

I did see missing stem leaf, but not double die in reverse.

Offline Giantgg

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 08:22:35 AM »
Hi poconopenn,

Thank you very much ... Can you point out  to me where is the missing leaf at the observe would like to learn from you. Actually can I know the actual diameter and thickness for an uncirculated Yuan shih kai dollar or fatman dollar  .

Diameter 39mm -39.5mm is that okay ?
Thickness 2.35 - 2.5mm is that okay ?


Thanks alot

giantgg

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 08:24:27 PM »
There are many silver made high quality fake 1919 YSK with correct weight and dimensions in the market. Your coins ought to submit to PCGS for authenticating.

The following old thread shown a fake 1919 YSK authenticated by NGC.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9290.0

The first coin in the following link is the same version as yours.

http://jd.cang.com/244688.html  (7 versions, with nice picture of reedings)

The first and fifth picture (NGC 65 and PCGS 64) are considered by Chinese collectors as 空心葉. IMO, it is just either a weak strike or minted with a late stage die. Your coin is different from NGC and PCGS coins. Two Chinese characters circled are not same as yours. However, the link inside China, mentioned above, suggests there is such version, even though I can not find one in NGC and PCGS websites (my data base is too small to be reliable). The second Chinese character from right has many different styles. Three different versions are posted.


Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 08:51:55 PM »
Your 1919 YSK does have DD in the marked area.

Offline Rainbird

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Re: 1919 Yuan Shih Kai bought in Taiwan Real or Not Real ?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2016, 06:43:54 AM »
There are many silver made high quality fake 1919 YSK with correct weight and dimensions in the market. Your coins ought to submit to PCGS for authenticating.

The following old thread shown a fake 1919 YSK authenticated by NGC.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9290.0

The first coin in the following link is the same version as yours.

http://jd.cang.com/244688.html  (7 versions, with nice picture of reedings)

The first and fifth picture (NGC 65 and PCGS 64) are considered by Chinese collectors as 空心葉. IMO, it is just either a weak strike or minted with a late stage die. Your coin is different from NGC and PCGS coins. Two Chinese characters circled are not same as yours. However, the link inside China, mentioned above, suggests there is such version, even though I can not find one in NGC and PCGS websites (my data base is too small to be reliable). The second Chinese character from right has many different styles. Three different versions are posted.



Hi poconopenn, how could you tell if the coin is novelty fake or a new variety not yet being realized ?