Author Topic: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?  (Read 3002 times)

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Offline silverpv

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What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« on: December 22, 2015, 12:41:41 AM »
I know a MS70 is perfect but I am wondering what are the separating factors between these three particular grades. I have a coin I would like to send in that looks good with the exception of a small nick on the stairs to the temple. It is very tiny, but I know it will not be perfect. I'm trying to see if it will fall to 67/68 .

I can find references for differences between morgan grades but not particularly panda's spelled out, especially by users with experience. I've read the definition on paper but that doesn't provide the insight that experience gives for a particular coin like the panda. I do look at these panda's with a loupe and I do have references in each category, but wanted to tap the knowledge here.

I also wanted to know what your opinion on the estimate of this coin is?

Thank you!





Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 01:42:05 AM »
I look for coins that are free of nicks and scratches, rim indentations, and rub marks (where the frosted surface shows something beneath the surface).

Coins passing that test then are reviewed for specks and flakes of missing frost on the high points. There are lots of these on your 1997 coin, esp. on the temple side . . . One or two on the panda side. These specks of missing frost increase the likelihood of a 68 grade.

Every coin with a red dot (copper spot) should pass thru NCS for removal for the best chance at a 69 grade.

The difference between a 69 and a 70 is most likely eye appeal and brilliance of luster. I have had lots of dull looking OMP coins and a few brilliant OMP coins. There is a clear difference, although sometimes the pouch makes it difficult
to determine just how shiny your coin is.

For an OMP fractional gold coin to grade 67, there must have been several problems that went unnoticed. A 68 means there was at least one distracting feature. A 69 is a nice clean coin with no distraction. A 70 is a nice clean coin with uniquely brilliant luster.

This is MY understanding of the system, and I am not very experienced. I have, however, submitted lots of coins that graded 69 and 70.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 10:28:17 AM »
There are many rub marks on your temple side which are not copper spots.  IMHO this coin is a 67.   A few years ago it may have been a 68 (you probably can see examples on eBay of coins with similar marks, that grade a 68) but the grades have gotten tougher. 

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 02:17:05 PM »
I think it will grade MS69.  Missing frost rarely affects grade, I have many 1996 and 1997 coins with missing frost and they graded MS69.  Frost damage or frost breaks does affect grade (1992 1/4oz proof, 1990 1/4oz proof for example of frost damage), then it would grade MS67-68.

For $15 send it in, live and learn. 

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 02:25:44 PM »
I think it will grade MS69.  Missing frost rarely affects grade, I have many 1996 and 1997 coins with missing frost and they graded MS69.  Frost damage or frost breaks does affect grade (1992 1/4oz proof, 1990 1/4oz proof for example of frost damage), then it would grade MS67-68.

For $15 send it in, live and learn. 

It is not just $15. 

It is $15 (ngc) + $NCS fee + the difference in sale price for a 69 and a 67/68, vs selling it as an OMP coin.

Selling as OMP could net you $220 or so.

If it grades as 69, then coin = $250+. If 68, then coin = $200-210. If 67, then coin = $180-200.

It might be worth the learning experience, but why take the chance when the  cost benefit analysis is not in one's favor?

Offline silverpv

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 03:05:54 PM »
Thank you for your input. It is all very helpful. When I have collected my next round of coins, I will send it in just to learn what they look for. All of you have made valid points.

This is going into my collection, as long as I can 'break even or learn something' then I'm ok. Eventually, I might sell but not in the near future. I want to enjoy them for a bit first. btw. this coin is not omp, it was resealed. I was able to get $20 back for it which means I'm in it for $200. The cost benefit is not there, but the collector in me just wants to do it. Hopefully, I will make it up on some other items I'm selling.

As they say, education is expensive but usually worthwhile from what you gain in experience.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2015, 10:38:21 PM »
I can tell you from experience the $15 (NGC)-$27 (NCS+NGC) is the cheapest and best education on the market to learn grading and pricing.  The difference in price between omp, raw or ms68 coin is insignificant these days, all you risk is grading fee, but the understanding you get is worth multiples when you apply it to future purchases. 

Offline silverpv

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Re: What are the main differences between MS67/68/69?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2016, 05:51:37 PM »
I can tell you from experience the $15 (NGC)-$27 (NCS+NGC) is the cheapest and best education on the market to learn grading and pricing.  The difference in price between omp, raw or ms68 coin is insignificant these days, all you risk is grading fee, but the understanding you get is worth multiples when you apply it to future purchases.  

Just circling back.. This coin graded a MS69 after NCS and grading. Compared to what prices are at now, I got a pretty good deal, plus an education to boot. ;)  Turns out the frosting is not as big a distraction as I thought. I did find out that rubs account for loss of points more so than frosting. I thought it was a 67/68 but at 69, I'm in the money.

Thanks Arif, Mirk, & Chris for your input. It helps me learn more about what to look for and what to avoid.