Author Topic: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin  (Read 11994 times)

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Offline gie461

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Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« on: October 12, 2015, 01:43:02 PM »
Dear All,

Can anyone help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin?

Thanks

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 02:19:02 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

宽永通宝 is a Japanese cash coin and minted from 1622-1769. This is the most common cash coin from Japan and circulated in China during Ming Dynasty. Please note the difference in Chinese character in the reverse. This is just a different version.

Offline gie461

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 02:42:14 PM »
Dear Master Poconopenn,

Thanks a lot for your help n value information.

Br,

Agi

Br,


Offline gie461

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2015, 04:39:49 PM »
Dear All,

Can i ask for more to identify a piece of chinese coin. I don't know what coin it's and it's a fake or geniue coin?
Sorry so low quality pic.

Thanks

Br,

Agi

Offline Chinasmith

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2015, 12:26:59 AM »
This second coin is an imitation of a cash coin of Emperor Ch'ien Lung (1736-1795). The real coin is very common, and those from most mints sell for a dollar or less. This imitation is part of a set of the 10 emperors of the Ch'ing Dynasty, and can be identified by the "pebbled" fields. No Chinese coin was ever made that way. This set of imitations has all the coins in the same size, whereas the genuine coins are generally larger for the earlier reigns and smaller for the last two rulers. I first saw these imitations, pasted on a card, being sold in Hong Kong in the mid 1980's. They were also selling at that time in Taiwan. The dealers in Hong Kong claimed the imitations were made in Taiwan, but the dealers in Taiwan said they were made in Hong Kong.

Offline gie461

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2015, 12:38:36 AM »
Dear Chinasmith,

Thanks for your information. It's very hard for me to identify chinese coin..i've almost 50 coin of china dynasty coin, but i still don't know which 1 is geniue and valueable. I think very difficult to find chinese coin information on internet.

Br,

Agi

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 12:17:13 AM »
This second coin is an imitation of a cash coin of Emperor Ch'ien Lung (1736-1795). The real coin is very common, and those from most mints sell for a dollar or less. This imitation is part of a set of the 10 emperors of the Ch'ing Dynasty, and can be identified by the "pebbled" fields. No Chinese coin was ever made that way. This set of imitations has all the coins in the same size, whereas the genuine coins are generally larger for the earlier reigns and smaller for the last two rulers. I first saw these imitations, pasted on a card, being sold in Hong Kong in the mid 1980's. They were also selling at that time in Taiwan. The dealers in Hong Kong claimed the imitations were made in Taiwan, but the dealers in Taiwan said they were made in Hong Kong.

Welcome to the forum. Your contribution is really appreciated. +1

I believe the set you referred to is the one in the attached picture. Yes, IMO, they are reproduction.

Offline gie461

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 12:37:39 AM »
Dear Master Poconopenn,

Thanks, do you meant all coins in that picture are reproduction? I one big question why there are a lot of chinese dynasty's ( tang, sung, ming n qing dynasty) coin found at Indonesia?

Br,


Agi

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2015, 12:20:18 PM »
I have two cash coins of unknown pedigree and authenticity.  I thought I post them for your comments.  Looking at poconopenn's chart, the first one is Chia-ching and the 2nd one is Chien-lung.  I have no idea whether they are genuine or not.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 11:15:04 PM »
Dear Master Poconopenn,

Thanks, do you meant all coins in that picture are reproduction? I one big question why there are a lot of chinese dynasty's ( tang, sung, ming n qing dynasty) coin found at Indonesia?

Br,


Agi

Yes, they are reproduction, since there is no way those coins made several hundred years apart can have identical surface details and toning.

Kublai Kahn invaded Java in later 12th century and introduced coinage at that time. In addition, Zheng He also made few trips to Southeastern Asia in earlier 14 century for trade. Many traders actually stayed behind at Java and did not go back to China. 

Offline Bearcat

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 11:47:23 PM »
Sandac, Your attribution is correct. The coins are genuine.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2015, 11:57:55 PM »
I have two cash coins of unknown pedigree and authenticity.  I thought I post them for your comments.  Looking at poconopenn's chart, the first one is Chia-ching and the 2nd one is Chien-lung.  I have no idea whether they are genuine or not.

It is relatively easy to spot the reproduction cash coins, but it is very difficult to identify a genuine, since ancient cash coins are usually badly toned and design and surface are damaged.

For example, I have a 2001 New Year gift booklet containing four cash coins which certified by expert from Chinese Numismatic Society. The first coin in the attached picture is identical to you coin in the second picture, but with size (23 mm) larger than your coin. However, IMO, my coin is questionable, since the corroded surface was being too regular.  Perhaps, Bearcat can comment on it.

Offline Bearcat

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 02:31:23 AM »
IMHO, All of Pocono Penn's coins are genuine. Qing dynasty cash with the same "nien hao" can vary somewhat in diameter depending on the Provencial mint, changing standards, mint master corruption, and other factors. Sandac's coin was from one of the Beijing mints which have the most consistent quality. The second coin is from which mint?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 08:40:33 PM »
IMHO, All of Pocono Penn's coins are genuine. Qing dynasty cash with the same "nien hao" can vary somewhat in diameter depending on the Provencial mint, changing standards, mint master corruption, and other factors. Sandac's coin was from one of the Beijing mints which have the most consistent quality. The second coin is from which mint?

Thank you for the help. Recently. Inside China, ancient cash coins appear to become very desirable collectible items. During last two months, I have checked my junk box which has many cash coins. Here are pictures of eight large size cash coins. I can identify two of the coins in the first raw (left and right). The rest coins are unknown (at least not in my two reference books), may not be genuine. The two coins which is identified in the attached pictures, has some design differences from my coins. Can you comment on them?
 
Specifications:

First raw (from left): 1. D: 39 mm, Wt.: 18.8 gm; 2. D: 41 mm, Wt.: 24.4 gm; 3. D: 45 mm, Wt.: 32.5 gm

2nd raw (from left): 1. D: 50 mm, Wt.: 33.9 gm; 2. D: 50 mm, Wt.: 36.4 gm; 3, D: 50 mm, Wt.: 37.5 gm

3rd raw (from left): 1. D: 62 mm, Wt.: 57.4 gm; 2. D: 62 mm, Wt.: 56.3 gm

Offline Bearcat

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 09:50:48 PM »
Poconpenn, I am honored that you would ask my opinion. Currently the most useful reference outside of China is "Chinese Cast Currency" by David Hartill. It is very well organized with illustrations and rarity guide. It also contains an excellent finding chart of "nien hao" reign titles organized by number of brush strokes. I believe the book is available from Scott Semans at coincoin.com. I think you would find it very helpful in mastering attributions of ancient Chinese cash. Attributions aside, IMHO I'm afraid all these pieces are not genuine.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2015, 12:22:25 AM »
Poconpenn, I am honored that you would ask my opinion. Currently the most useful reference outside of China is "Chinese Cast Currency" by David Hartill. It is very well organized with illustrations and rarity guide. It also contains an excellent finding chart of "nien hao" reign titles organized by number of brush strokes. I believe the book is available from Scott Semans at coincoin.com. I think you would find it very helpful in mastering attributions of ancient Chinese cash. Attributions aside, IMHO I'm afraid all these pieces are not genuine.

Thank you for the advice. I ordered David's book today. My two reference books (Arthur Braddan Coole 1961 Ed.and Mr. Ma, 1991 Ed.) may be out of date. I was really surprised the value of some cash coins in the recent auctions inside China. Glad to have an expert of cash coin in this forum.

Offline Bearcat

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Re: Plz help me to identify this chinese dynasty coin
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2015, 01:00:55 AM »
While I don't consider myself an "expert', I'm happy to share what knowledge I have when I can. Yes, some of the Chinese cash coin prices have really taken off the last couple of years. There have been several major Chinese ancient coin collections sold in the US by Stephen Album Rare Company in the past year. There will be another very important collection auctioned in mid January, 2016.