Author Topic: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?  (Read 6682 times)

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Offline PandaNoob

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Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« on: September 21, 2015, 11:33:37 PM »
Hello,

I'm building a collection and are after a lot of dates in the 1990s currently. One listing on eBay caught my eye. With the 1998 1 oz BU Silver (Large Date) being as rare as it is, I was surprised to find this. I have a suspicion that it is a fake, although a really good one. Please take a look and tell me what you think. There are a few small things on the obverse that just don't look perfect, but one big thing really sticks out - the shape of the Panda's shoulder. In the photo on the NGC website, the shoulder is a little larger and has a very different shape than the one in the photo on the eBay website. What do you experts think?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291565307478

Thanks,
PandaNoob

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 02:04:25 AM »
Looks good to me.

Offline NBM

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 04:02:16 AM »
It looks like what you are seeing is a difference in die state at the time of minting. As dies become worn they are reworked resulting in a difference in how the frosting is distributed.

Offline PandaNoob

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 07:59:08 AM »
It looks like what you are seeing is a difference in die state at the time of minting. As dies become worn they are reworked resulting in a difference in how the frosting is distributed.

Thanks. I'm not sure I fully understand this but I appreciate the perspective. The entire arm has a different shape. The distance between the face and the black fur section of the arm is quite different. I know the packaging looks right, but this section of the obverse stands out as being quite different from the pic on the NGC website.

Offline NBM

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 10:00:46 AM »
The "black fur" is actually polished surface contrasting next to frosted surface. If you'll look closely at the shoulder you will notice the shape is still there but the polished surface has advanced further up the shoulder.

Offline PandaNoob

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 10:15:56 AM »
The "black fur" is actually polished surface contrasting next to frosted surface. If you'll look closely at the shoulder you will notice the shape is still there but the polished surface has advanced further up the shoulder.

Wow. I did not see that before. But now I do. The shape IS still there but the polished surface has just extended up the arm. Thank you for that.

This is therefore a sign of an older die. I'm curious if that affects the value in any way.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 12:26:12 PM »
Variations in the fur pattern are common.  Looking at random 20 pictures of 1998 silver large date, I can see 5 different shoulder patterns.  The coin you have question about has the same pattern as NGC 2780251-047.  It is an unusual pattern, only one in the sample of 20.  Attached is the 5 patterns side-by-side, or if you prefer, the animated gif displaying each of the 5 patterns every two seconds.

Offline PandaNoob

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 12:52:19 PM »
Variations in the fur pattern are common.  Looking at random 20 pictures of 1998 silver large date, I can see 5 different shoulder patterns.  The coin you have question about has the same pattern as NGC 2780251-047.  It is an unusual pattern, only one in the sample of 20.  Attached is the 5 patterns side-by-side, or if you prefer, the animated gif displaying each of the 5 patterns every two seconds.

Impressive. Thank you very much for this. It is very interesting and helpful for me in considering this purchase

Offline Birdman

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 01:12:25 PM »
Variations in the fur pattern are common.  Looking at random 20 pictures of 1998 silver large date, I can see 5 different shoulder patterns.  The coin you have question about has the same pattern as NGC 2780251-047.  It is an unusual pattern, only one in the sample of 20.  Attached is the 5 patterns side-by-side, or if you prefer, the animated gif displaying each of the 5 patterns every two seconds.

Cool animated gif, as usual, SANDAC. :thumbup1:

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 01:45:10 PM »
PandaNoob,

We welcome you to the forum. Please visit often.   N39

Offline PandaNoob

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 02:49:24 PM »
PandaNoob,

We welcome you to the forum. Please visit often.   N39

Thank you. I appreciate that!

Offline PandaNoob

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 11:09:25 PM »
Ok guys, so this Panda just sold on eBay for $210! All of the sources I could find (e.g. Pricepedia, NGC website) said the value was closer to $130. This boggles my mind. How does one price this stuff??

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2015, 01:29:29 AM »
Ok guys, so this Panda just sold on eBay for $210! All of the sources I could find (e.g. Pricepedia, NGC website) said the value was closer to $130. This boggles my mind. How does one price this stuff??

Marketplace dynamics; demand and supply considerations. Short term price gyrations become a trend in the long term. Price guides are just that. Individuals ascribe the final value to the item based on their needs and what potentials they see in the coin. The foregoing discussions may have aroused interest in the coin leading to its sale at the price you noted. Were you planning on buying that coin? Others could come along soon. Best wishes and thanks for your contributions. +1.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2015, 06:35:33 AM »
Ok guys, so this Panda just sold on eBay for $210! All of the sources I could find (e.g. Pricepedia, NGC website) said the value was closer to $130. This boggles my mind. How does one price this stuff??

I was alos impressed by the price it has been sold for.
Good for the seller.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Possible Fake 1998 Silver Large Date on Ebay?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2015, 08:47:34 AM »
Ok guys, so this Panda just sold on eBay for $210! All of the sources I could find (e.g. Pricepedia, NGC website) said the value was closer to $130. This boggles my mind. How does one price this stuff??

80 % of all non graded coins on e bay are fakes  so when a good coin comes up in omp and is for sure genuine it gets lots of bidders..