Author Topic: mini test  (Read 59619 times)

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Offline Birdman

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mini test
« on: September 16, 2015, 08:09:30 PM »
Sometimes it is just nice to see coins.  With a nod to wg, who shared some really fun stuff  

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6926.msg44774#msg44774
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6487.0

here is a share from a portion of my MUCH smaller collection.  A random coin from each box of G1/2 is pulled out.  And no, I do not have a box of 1995 G1/2!  I wish I did, but wg might  ;).  

Photographed for a brief moment when it was out of the climate controlled bank vault.  

Perhaps someone else can share something from their collection?  Perhaps something we haven't seen much of?  There has been some talk of modern circulating coins.  Anybody have a high grade example of one of those?  I sure could learn a lot about them.  I also love to see interesting chop marked coins?  What else is your passion?  Share it  :001_smile:

Consider adding a photo to one of the following threads to give us a taste of what you like:

"Post your newest modern Chinese coin" http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1115.1140
"Post your newest older Chinese coin" http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5024.150


Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: mini test
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2015, 08:23:56 PM »
Wait a sec, are those ALL half ounce coins?

If so, I think we need to have a chat. My collection is missing some coins you currently are storing in that climate controlled bank vault.  N4

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2015, 08:48:27 PM »
Wait a sec, are those ALL half ounce coins?

If so, I think we need to have a chat. My collection is missing some coins you currently are storing in that climate controlled bank vault.  N4

Yes.

But, sometimes a woman is sexiest if she isn't fully naked, and she leaves something to the imagination.  So I'll just show a little hint of skin here and keep the rest hidden...for the moment.  Definitely until someone else shares  :001_tongue:

Offline SANDAC

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Re: mini test
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2015, 10:00:24 PM »
 :drool:  :001_tt1:  N31

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 01:03:34 AM »
Sometimes it is just nice to see coins.  With a nod to wg, who shared some really fun stuff 

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6926.msg44774#msg44774
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6487.0

here is a share from a portion of my MUCH smaller collection.  A random coin from each box of G1/2 is pulled out.  And no, I do not have a box of 1995 G1/2!  I wish I did, but wg might  ;)

Photographed for a brief moment when it was out of the climate controlled bank vault. 

Perhaps someone else can share something from their collection?  Perhaps something we haven't seen much of?  There has been some talk of modern circulating coins.  Anybody have a high grade example of one of those?  I sure could learn a lot about them.  I also love to see interesting chop marked coins?  What else is your passion?  Share it  :001_smile:

Consider adding a photo to one of the following threads to give us a taste of what you like:

"Post your newest modern Chinese coin" http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1115.1140
"Post your newest older Chinese coin" http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5024.150



Wow! You say wg has more metals? Just projecting from what you have out there I am not so sure! Anyway what do I know? Just KOT!

How long have you been collecting? Great job!  :thumbup:
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: mini test
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 01:45:37 AM »
Go search the "test" thread and you will see why Birdman called this one the mini test thread. Humbling!


Wow! You say wg has more metals? Just projecting from what you have out there I am not so sure! Anyway what do I know? Just KOT!

How long have you been collecting? Great job!  :thumbup:

Offline fwang2450

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Re: mini test
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 01:48:26 AM »
Circulating coins are not that spectacular to watch. I showed the following pictures on the forum before. It is THE top one circulating coin in Sun's book, worth about $20,000. 40th Anniversary of the PRC proof coin. Mintage 1000, surviving mintage very tiny, as some specimens were used as a 1 Yuan coin in circulation before people had any idea about proof coins. So the price gain is about 120,000 times.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2015, 02:08:02 AM »
Go search the "test" thread and you will see why Birdman called this one the mini test thread. Humbling!



Yes. I have seen wg's stash previously. It wasn't just humbling, it was plain demoralizing. And he built that in just 5 years!
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 02:18:20 AM »
Circulating coins are not that spectacular to watch. I showed the following pictures on the forum before. It is THE top one circulating coin in Sun's book, worth about $20,000. 40th Anniversary of the PRC proof coin. Mintage 1000, surviving mintage very tiny, as some specimens were used as a 1 Yuan coin in circulation before people had any idea about proof coins. So the price gain is about 120,000 times.

Are there other versions of this particular coin? For example non-proof, restrikes or fake? What is the metal or alloy? Thanks for answering.
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Offline NBM

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Re: mini test
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2015, 05:48:20 AM »
Holy cow Birdman...  :001_tt1:
I like how you had to start stuffing them in sideways.  :thumbup:

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2015, 07:37:33 AM »
How long have you been collecting?

I've been collecting world coins seriously for about the last 15 years.  I started getting into higher value world coins (mainly big, old silver coins) about 2005 or so.  I bought my first Chinese rarity in 2009 (Kweichow auto dollar).  In late 2010, I started really getting into Modern Chinese gold and silver when I noticed that I could buy them in the coin shops for a small percentage over spot price, but their actual value was much higher.  For an intensive year or so I did that, until most local and online dealers became more knowledgeable.  Over the past few years, I've been steadily trying to pick up single deals here and there.  I've been incrementally trimming some shares of stock that I think had become overpriced and reinvesting some of that in Chinese gold that I think has potential to increase in numismatic value.

I like how you had to start stuffing them in sideways.  :thumbup:

 N27  That is interesting that you notice that.  When a safety deposit box at the bank gets full, I try to be very space efficient in my storage, so I don't need to rent another box.  I don't like having more recurring yearly fees than necessary.  Rest assured that each slab is protected in a plastic sheath, and some are also in archival storage bags.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: mini test
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2015, 09:20:27 AM »
Here is the proof version of the 1984 35th founding of PRC commemorative 3-coin set.  I found this set on ebay over 2 years ago and paid $100.  It has been the subject of previous posts.  I believe the value is around $10K but not sure since I have not check in a while


Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 09:44:08 AM »
Here is the proof version of the 1984 35th founding of PRC commemorative 3-coin set.  I found this set on ebay over 2 years ago and paid $100.  It has been the subject of previous posts.  I believe the value is around $10K but not sure since I have not check in a while


Circulating coins are not that spectacular to watch. I showed the following pictures on the forum before. It is THE top one circulating coin in Sun's book, worth about $20,000. 40th Anniversary of the PRC proof coin. Mintage 1000, surviving mintage very tiny, as some specimens were used as a 1 Yuan coin in circulation before people had any idea about proof coins. So the price gain is about 120,000 times.

Nice.  I am training my eye, in case I see something like these on eBay or in a coin shop.  I bet the price listed in Krause, the coin book that many US dealers reference is totally out of date, and if the piece doesn't come up that frequently on eBay (so no price reference in "sold items"), I imagine there is the potential to scoop up some deals.  I don't think most dealers are going to go on Chinese websites to get the latest pricing information.  Market knowledge is power.  (Or maybe these circulating pieces wouldn't be expected to show up in US coin market much, unlike pandas for which there was an export pipeline?). But the party would stop when somebody like NGC or PCGS start their own price guides for these coins, as they did with pandas, making the information widely available, and eliminating the knowledge gaps.  Or do I recall that Peter was going to add some circulating coin listing to his "Pricepedia" subscription newsletter?  I won't be paying a big premium for any of these coins, as I have limited knowledge, but I'll keep my eye out in case any US dealers have obviously mispriced pieces, such that there is a low risk and high reward potential.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2015, 10:39:49 AM »
Are there other versions of this particular coin? For example non-proof, restrikes or fake? What is the metal or alloy? Thanks for answering.

Answer found. Low priced "non-proof" versions available on eBay. I guess the key word here is "proof". Does the UNC version have any investment potential? I picked up this ?non-proof  version on eBay some months ago. I just liked it.
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Offline fwang2450

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Re: mini test
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2015, 11:23:13 AM »
Are there other versions of this particular coin? For example non-proof, restrikes or fake? What is the metal or alloy? Thanks for answering.
The business strike is very common because of the large mintage of 21 million. Sun's Catalog gives the price of 19 Yuan, about 3 US dollars. There is also the bank specimen, with a mintage of 15000, priced at 8000 Yuan. All this info is in Sun's Catalog.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: mini test
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2015, 11:37:02 AM »
Nice.  I am training my eye, in case I see something like these on eBay or in a coin shop.  I bet the price listed in Krause, the coin book that many US dealers reference is totally out of date, and if the piece doesn't come up that frequently on eBay (so no price reference in "sold items"), I imagine there is the potential to scoop up some deals.  I don't think most dealers are going to go on Chinese websites to get the latest pricing information.  Market knowledge is power.  (Or maybe these circulating pieces wouldn't be expected to show up in US coin market much, unlike pandas for which there was an export pipeline?). But the party would stop when somebody like NGC or PCGS start their own price guides for these coins, as they did with pandas, making the information widely available, and eliminating the knowledge gaps.  Or do I recall that Peter was going to add some circulating coin listing to his "Pricepedia" subscription newsletter?  I won't be paying a big premium for any of these coins, as I have limited knowledge, but I'll keep my eye out in case any US dealers have obviously mispriced pieces, such that there is a low risk and high reward potential.
Some proof circulating coins were given away as VIP gifts to visitors. So they landed outside China. There are still chances to do cherry picking with circulating coins, as Chris and I did.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2015, 11:56:55 AM »
Some proof circulating coins were given away a VIP gifts to visitors. So they landed outside China. There are still chances to do cherry picking with circulating coins, as Chris and I did.

Knowing what to look for and being ahead of the crowd are two numismatic pearls for big time success. Great job finding these treasure items!   N31
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Offline 1668Chris

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Re: mini test
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 03:59:22 PM »
Some proof circulating coins were given away as VIP gifts to visitors. So they landed outside China. There are still chances to do cherry picking with circulating coins, as Chris and I did.

While I would love the opportunity to collect additional proof coins the reality is they don't exist in the U.S.   I happened to get lucky on the set I purchased.  Also the major auctions in Hong Kong etc.  do not carry these types of coins.  I have been trying to buying circulating proof sets whenever I see them for reasonable prices mostly 1992 thru 2000.  These are low mintage sets which can be found in Germany on occasion, not so much in the U.S.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 06:50:18 PM »
Sometimes it is just nice to see coins.  With a nod to wg, who shared some really fun stuff 

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6926.msg44774#msg44774
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6487.0

here is a share from a portion of my MUCH smaller collection.  A random coin from each box of G1/2 is pulled out.  And no, I do not have a box of 1995 G1/2!  I wish I did, but wg might  ;)

Photographed for a brief moment when it was out of the climate controlled bank vault. 

Perhaps someone else can share something from their collection?  Perhaps something we haven't seen much of?  There has been some talk of modern circulating coins.  Anybody have a high grade example of one of those?  I sure could learn a lot about them.  I also love to see interesting chop marked coins?  What else is your passion?  Share it  :001_smile:

Consider adding a photo to one of the following threads to give us a taste of what you like:

"Post your newest modern Chinese coin" http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1115.1140
"Post your newest older Chinese coin" http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=5024.150



Oops, I forgot about two other boxes of G1/2 that were stored in a separate safe deposit box. :blush:  That's what happens with my "store them away and forget about them until years in the future" investment strategy.

Here's an updated photo taken today.  The coin that happened to be first in each box is placed on top.  N38


Offline dynamike51

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Re: mini test
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2015, 02:35:29 AM »
Nice, Birdman, nice !!!  N31  N31  N31  :001_tt1: :001_tt1: :001_tt1:

You're WG#2

Offline pandamonium

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Re: mini test
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2015, 07:52:59 AM »
I agree awesome collection but the bank safety deposit box for me is a huge concern.   I do not trust the government of a bankrupt country as stated here many times.    Hope you keep your hard earned collection.......that's a lot of top gold pandas....

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2015, 08:38:13 AM »
Nice, Birdman, nice !!!  N31  N31  N31  :001_tt1: :001_tt1: :001_tt1:

You're WG#2

Thanks, but I'm no WG #2. I'd be a mini-wg, at best.  From what I've seen, wg has many multiples of the absolute key date G1/2 (1995, 1998, etc.).  Since many of those had already popped in price when I got in in late 2010, and I lack courage and resources to spend huge premiums on single coins, I adopted a more economical strategy of working on the semi-key area, mainly from 1989-2007.  I'll restrain from showing you my secret-sauce investment focus of dates right now, but I tried to focus where others weren't.  Furthermore, from what I can gather, wg has the ability to place massive orders from dealers and get sheet after sheet and box after box of product.  Mine had largely been a more time-intensive, scrappy, single-coin approach of finding various denominations of better-date gold pandas near spot price in a coin shop, or online, grading them and then trading or selling the G1/20, G1/10, G1/4, and G1oz and the G1/2 MS68 in order to get more of my focus MS69 G1/2 that I found at an attractive price.  A lot of work!  I'm not one who is in the habit of writing 5-figure checks to directly get a box of G1/2 I want.

Furthermore, I've had to make some tough tradeoffs.  For instance, up until spring 2013, I had a pretty good date set of gold 1 oz pandas.  But with the run up in price at that time, I traded or sold most of them, including a nice string of MS69 G1oz 1991-1998, within a few weeks at the top in March 2013.  I love those big gold designs, but I couldn't justify holding on to them with my limited resources.  I converted them into dry powder to cherry pick G1/2 over the ensuing years.  Alas, I think I only have one BU Gold 1 oz panda left  :(  WG has so many G1oz, and key dates too.  I saw lots of 1995s, etc!!  Moreover, wg has loads of so many non-panda coins, some of which I think spiked higher in value when the coin exchanges got active.

Thus, I bow to king wg  :001_tongue:  He's got the dream collection.  I didn't even mention those huge gold pieces he has  :001_tt1: 

Having said that, thanks for the kind words on mine.  I've had to work for it with endless time searching online for underpriced coins and trying to learn as much as I can about G1/2 dates, varieties, and populations (I assure my wife it is time spent learning about coins, rather than time spent on match.com!).  It gives me pride to look at my collection.  N38  And, if numismatic premiums evaporate overnight, they are still pretty to look at, and they've got some gold content to fall back on, which I feel is increasingly important with world debts rising, and prolonged low-interest rates encouraging the piling up of even more debt.  I'm convinced that will not end well.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: mini test
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2015, 10:43:03 PM »
You're too modest, Birdman.  N31  N39

We all realize there's a huge disparity between wg and the runner-up, and maybe no one will ever catch up with him. (Yes, I drooled over those 95 1/2 and 1 oz too. Most people will dream to have one or two, but wg seems to have a drawer-full of them.   :w00t:  :w00t:  :001_wub:)

Let's just enjoy the collection of these beautiful coins - not just our own but someone else's too)

Cheers.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2015, 08:50:43 AM »
Another peek. 

I got one of these graded from OMP four years ago.

Price Guide says a 13.6% premium for a pop 4  G1/2 MS70?  Please contact me if you'd like to sell me one at that price.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2015, 09:10:06 AM »
Thanks, but I'm no WG #2. I'd be a mini-wg, at best.  From what I've seen, wg has many multiples of the absolute key date G1/2 (1995, 1998, etc.).  Since many of those had already popped in price when I got in in late 2010, and I lack courage and resources to spend huge premiums on single coins, I adopted a more economical strategy of working on the semi-key area, mainly from 1989-2007.  I'll restrain from showing you my secret-sauce investment focus of dates right now, but I tried to focus where others weren't.  Furthermore, from what I can gather, wg has the ability to place massive orders from dealers and get sheet after sheet and box after box of product.  Mine had largely been a more time-intensive, scrappy, single-coin approach of finding various denominations of better-date gold pandas near spot price in a coin shop, or online, grading them and then trading or selling the G1/20, G1/10, G1/4, and G1oz and the G1/2 MS68 in order to get more of my focus MS69 G1/2 that I found at an attractive price.  A lot of work!  I'm not one who is in the habit of writing 5-figure checks to directly get a box of G1/2 I want.

Furthermore, I've had to make some tough tradeoffs.  For instance, up until spring 2013, I had a pretty good date set of gold 1 oz pandas.  But with the run up in price at that time, I traded or sold most of them, including a nice string of MS69 G1oz 1991-1998, within a few weeks at the top in March 2013.  I love those big gold designs, but I couldn't justify holding on to them with my limited resources.  I converted them into dry powder to cherry pick G1/2 over the ensuing years.  Alas, I think I only have one BU Gold 1 oz panda left  :(  WG has so many G1oz, and key dates too.  I saw lots of 1995s, etc!!  Moreover, wg has loads of so many non-panda coins, some of which I think spiked higher in value when the coin exchanges got active.

Thus, I bow to king wg  :001_tongue:  He's got the dream collection.  I didn't even mention those huge gold pieces he has  :001_tt1: 

Having said that, thanks for the kind words on mine.  I've had to work for it with endless time searching online for underpriced coins and trying to learn as much as I can about G1/2 dates, varieties, and populations (I assure my wife it is time spent learning about coins, rather than time spent on match.com!).  It gives me pride to look at my collection.  N38  And, if numismatic premiums evaporate overnight, they are still pretty to look at, and they've got some gold content to fall back on, which I feel is increasingly important with world debts rising, and prolonged low-interest rates encouraging the piling up of even more debt.  I'm convinced that will not end well.


Whether it is wg, Birdman or several others who have allowed us a glimpse of their collections or strategies, it is the inspiration that matters the most. You get ideas of future possibilities and successes if you can just apply some of your mental and other resources on a regular basis to researching, purchasing and upgrading your collection. The passage of time can be kind to you as long as you report for duty every day. I have learnt so much about MCC within the last two years than I ever did previously just by tuning in, imbibing the generous offerings and chirping in from time to time.

Thanks guys!  N31 :thumbup:
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2015, 09:18:03 AM »
A small gold medal collection ,the OMP and flip coins are going to NGC on Monday so I had the box out of the bank safety deposit box to pack for ngc so here is a quick photo  easy WG :):)  lol

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2015, 09:29:07 AM »
A small gold medal collection ,the OMP and flip coins are going to NGC on Monday so I had the box out of the bank safety deposit box to pack for ngc so here is a quick photo  easy WG :):)  lol

Thanks for sharing.  I have a few of those medals (e.g., NY, SF), but your collection is many times more complete than mine.  I assume that the raw coins will be going through NCS first?  They should be able to take care of those copper spots.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2015, 09:30:01 AM »
Another peek.  

I got one of these graded from OMP four years ago.

Price Guide says a 13.6% premium for a pop 4  G1/2 MS70?  Please contact me if you'd like to sell me one at that price.

Given that the coin had been in OMP for approximately 10 years did you have to send it to NCS for conservation before grading? In other words is cleaning necessary before grading a coin that has been in OMP for a long time, especially if directly in contact with the pliable plastic coin envelope? (And what is a "long time"?). Is the answer different for gold as compared to silver?

I know that the more experienced collectors can make that decision on careful examination of the coin in question but for most others, how do they make a decision on whether to send straight to a grading company or routing the coin submission through NCS or a suitable alternative coin conservation service? Thanks for more insight.
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2015, 09:31:12 AM »
yes sir NCS, I am trying to upgrade my 68,s   ,wish me luck!

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2015, 09:34:57 AM »
Thanks for sharing.  I have a few of those medals (e.g., NY, SF), but your collection is many times more complete than mine.  I assume that the raw coins will be going through NCS first?  They should be able to take care of those copper spots.

Seems like you already started answering my question before I asked. Clairvoyance another one of your gifts?  N8 N23 :scared:
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2015, 09:37:40 AM »
yes sir NCS, I am trying to upgrade my 68,s   ,wish me luck!

Good luck JC; I can see some PF70s in your stars!
Best wishes.
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2015, 09:39:52 AM »
I would love to know why more folks don't get involved with these panda gold medals ,despite there extremely low mintage typically 1000 to 3000  an astute buyer can still pick all but the rarest ones for a smallish premium over melt ..... am I missing something ? every time I see them and the premium is small I jump all over them ..thinking someday they will wake up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  am i misguided?  

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2015, 09:52:51 AM »
Given that the coin had been in OMP for approximately 10 years did you have to send it to NCS for conservation before grading? In other words is cleaning necessary before grading a coin that has been in OMP for a long time, especially if directly in contact with the pliable plastic coin envelope? (And what is a "long time"?). Is the answer different for gold as compared to silver?

I know that the more experienced collectors can make that decision on careful examination of the coin in question but for most others, how do they make a decision on whether to send straight to a grading company or routing the coin submission through NCS or a suitable alternative coin conservation service? Thanks for more insight.

At that time (July 2011), I think the NCS was only $20 or so per coin, so I took advantage of it.  You will hear opinions both way, but I have almost always used NCS when I am submitting old gold OMP pandas.  Perhaps, I've only enriched NGC, but it does make them look nicer to me, and it gives me peace of mind.

In addition to removing the ugly copper spots, I think it just improves the overall eye appeal.  I suspect it also improves the grade that the coin will receive (obviously so with copper spots).  It also gives me comfort that the coin was "professionally conserved" (sounds better than "cleaning", which typically refers to a more harsh process).  I've seen "PVC," or whatever the chemical residues from the plastic, do some nasty things to coins surfaces, so it feels good to professionally remove any residue, before it goes in the slab, and then goes into my archival bag, and then goes into the climate controlled vault with supplemental desiccant. 

There has been some discussion on whether NCS conserves all the coins it is sent or, just the ones it deems to need conserving, but I think that the majority of mine have been processed (spots, haze, etc. are missing when they come back).  I did have one that I sent through NCS that came back with its copper spot still intact, but I just sent it back to NCS and it was taken care of.

I haven't had any problems yet with my NCS-conserved gold MS70s.  I suppose I'll be a good test case if problems from this "cleaning" occur in the future, but so far so good.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2015, 10:15:34 AM »
I would love to know why more folks don't get involved with these panda gold medals ,despite there extremely low mintage typically 1000 to 3000  an astute buyer can still pick all but the rarest ones for a smallish premium over melt ..... am I missing something ? every time I see them and the premium is small I jump all over them ..thinking someday they will wake up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  am i misguided?   

I've listened to opinions on both sides.  As you can see from my collection, I've focused mainly on the core BU gold pandas.  The thinking is that most people collect the main date series, so if you can get the better-date, bread-and-butter basics, you stand a good chance of price appreciation as broader mainstream demand pushes up prices.

The medals can be a little tricky, as there are so many offshoot types (with a new crop of types each year), so you can't count on as large a pool of core collectors.  Also, I think that in a few cases, if the medal type didn't sell well initially, they may still be held in large hoards by the dealers?  You'd want to do as much research as possible to figure out the nuances for each type.  Having said all of that, I quite happily paid a premium for my 1987 MS69 Gold NY Medal (and a 1987 MS69 NY Platinum Medal).  It has the pre-9/11 twin towers on its skyline (visceral), and is somewhat a grade rarity (although nothing like the 1988 New Orleans issue, which seems to be plagued with forehead rubs).  I'm still waiting to find one of those 69s selling for a small premium!

If you can get a big, beautiful, G1oz medal with a low surviving population, a nice design, and grade rarity, without paying too much of a premium, why not go for it?  Buy something you like when it is out of style.   If it comes back into style, you may be in a good position.  If not, you still have 1 oz of gold with a good story.  I don't have the means to collect everything, so I've had to pick my focuses.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: mini test
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2015, 10:25:11 AM »
A small gold medal collection ,the OMP and flip coins are going to NGC on Monday so I had the box out of the bank safety deposit box to pack for ngc so here is a quick photo  easy WG :):)  lol

Is that a 1997 munich gold 1/2 ounce...nice and the key coin for the series besides the 1996 bi metal.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2015, 10:28:44 AM »
Is that a 1997 munich gold 1/2 ounce...nice and the key coin for the series besides the 1996 bi metal.
YES :)

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Re: mini test
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2015, 10:29:52 AM »
I have always used NCS for all gold and silver.  For gold they remove the copper spots and any PVC residue from the original plastic pouch...this is extremely important to remove for proper preservation and storage.  I have not sent coins into NCS for some time since the price change and the fact they no longer conserve everything vs. evaluate for conservation.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2015, 10:34:53 AM »
Is that a 1997 munich gold 1/2 ounce...nice and the key coin for the series besides the 1996 bi metal.
I've listened to opinions on both sides.  As you can see from my collection, I've focused mainly on the core BU gold pandas.  The thinking is that most people collect the main date series, so if you can get the better-date, bread-and-butter basics, you stand a good chance of price appreciation as broader mainstream demand pushes up prices.

The medals can be a little tricky, as there are so many offshoot types (with a new crop of types each year), so you can't count on as large a pool of core collectors.  Also, I think that in a few cases, if the medal type didn't sell well initially, they may still be held in large hoards by the dealers?  You'd want to do as much research as possible to figure out the nuances for each type.  Having said all of that, I quite happily paid a premium for my 1987 MS69 Gold NY Medal (and a 1987 MS69 NY Platinum Medal).  It has the pre-9/11 twin towers on its skyline (visceral), and is somewhat a grade rarity (although nothing like the 1988 New Orleans issue, which seems to be plagued with forehead rubs).  I'm still waiting to find one of those 69s selling for a small premium!

If you can get a big, beautiful, G1oz medal with a low surviving population, a nice design, and grade rarity, without paying too much of a premium, why not go for it?  Buy something you like when it is out of style.   If it comes back into style, you may be in a good position.  If not, you still have 1 oz of gold with a good story.  I don't have the means to collect everything, so I've had to pick my focuses.
[/quote

BIRDMAN YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE ......  the 1988 ana new orleans  is a REAL SLEEPER  I just picked up 2 and paid 200 over spot ,it is a tough coin loose capsules like the 1988 munich make the coin wrought with headrubs even in OMP  hence the low grades. 1500 mintage I believe ... i would assume it is not a coincidence that both these 1988 medals have the same problem

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2015, 10:35:25 AM »
BIRDMAN YOU HAVE A GOOD EYE ......  the 1988 ana new orleans  is a REAL SLEEPER  I just picked up 2 and paid 200 over spot ,it is a tough coin loose capsules like the 1988 munich make the coin wrought with headrubs even in OMP  hence the low grades. 1500 mintage I believe ... i would assume it is not a coincidence that both these 1988 medals have the same problem

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2015, 11:17:54 AM »
I would love to know why more folks don't get involved with these panda gold medals ,despite there extremely low mintage typically 1000 to 3000  an astute buyer can still pick all but the rarest ones for a smallish premium over melt ..... am I missing something ? every time I see them and the premium is small I jump all over them ..thinking someday they will wake up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  am i misguided?   

I've listened to opinions on both sides.  As you can see from my collection, I've focused mainly on the core BU gold pandas.  The thinking is that most people collect the main date series, so if you can get the better-date, bread-and-butter basics, you stand a good chance of price appreciation as broader mainstream demand pushes up prices.

The medals can be a little tricky, as there are so many offshoot types (with a new crop of types each year), so you can't count on as large a pool of core collectors.  Also, I think that in a few cases, if the medal type didn't sell well initially, they may still be held in large hoards by the dealers?  You'd want to do as much research as possible to figure out the nuances for each type.  Having said all of that, I quite happily paid a premium for my 1987 MS69 Gold NY Medal (and a 1987 MS69 NY Platinum Medal).  It has the pre-9/11 twin towers on its skyline (visceral), and is somewhat a grade rarity (although nothing like the 1988 New Orleans issue, which seems to be plagued with forehead rubs).  I'm still waiting to find one of those 69s selling for a small premium!

If you can get a big, beautiful, G1oz medal with a low surviving population, a nice design, and grade rarity, without paying too much of a premium, why not go for it?  Buy something you like when it is out of style.   If it comes back into style, you may be in a good position.  If not, you still have 1 oz of gold with a good story.  I don't have the means to collect everything, so I've had to pick my focuses.

I have noticed this tug of war of opinions, so to speak, between buying medals (even early year releases) and coins. Instinctively a high grade, early year, low mintage, highly regarded gold medal should have been the one to attract a higher valuation due to its more restricted availability, with a consequent readiness of potential collectors to pay more to acquire it. However, it seems that at a higher pricing level (more) individuals may opt for acquiring the less expensive coin equivalent, which because of the larger base of collectors/investors and other attributes, may be easier to sell. I get the impression that medals in general may be more of true collector items as compared to coins. I could be wrong!
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2015, 12:06:03 PM »
The 1988 ANA Cincinnati is one someone should not overlook   low mintage believed to be far less than 500 (source Peter Anthony pricepedia)  the census history does not tell the true story (they grade fairly well)   being an ex New York-er the NY tugs at me pretty good I was in NY 3 blocks away from the twin towers working when the tragedy occurred. 

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: mini test
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2015, 04:27:42 PM »
A small gold medal collection ,the OMP and flip coins are going to NGC on Monday so I had the box out of the bank safety deposit box to pack for ngc so here is a quick photo  easy WG :):)  lol

Quote from: jc888888888
I just picked up 2 and paid 200 over spot ,it is a tough coin loose capsules like the 1988 munich make the coin wrought with headrubs even in OMP  hence the low grades.

My small finger tells me you have bought these both 1oz gold Munich 1988 and both 1oz gold New Orleans 1988 medlas this week from a poor guy...

"Le malheur des uns fait le bonheur des autres"...
What a tragedy !

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2015, 05:55:58 PM »
My small finger tells me you have bought these both 1oz gold Munich 1988 and both 1oz gold New Orleans 1988 medlas this week from a poor guy...

"Le malheur des uns fait le bonheur des autres"...
What a tragedy !

I am the poor guy now :):)  I blew my coin budget for 3 months:)  but 5 ounces of gold or some paper ,I like the gold better ..:) I paid a fair price probably overpaid but  what the heck I am a long term holder of metal

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: mini test
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2015, 03:00:33 AM »
I am the poor guy now :):)  I blew my coin budget for 3 months:)  but 5 ounces of gold or some paper ,I like the gold better ..:) I paid a fair price probably overpaid but  what the heck I am a long term holder of metal

We are all poor guys.
For him, I was talking at the 1st degree... I was also in touch with him.

Overpaid ?... 200 USD over spot...  :blink:
LOL

Offline dynamike51

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Re: mini test
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2015, 12:09:03 PM »
We are all poor guys.
For him, I was talking at the 1st degree... I was also in touch with him.

Overpaid ?... 200 USD over spot...  :blink:
LOL

Obviously, JC felt a little smug when he thought he "got a steal".

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2015, 02:09:40 PM »
Nope not smug at all.     Paid the seller a fair price actually more than anyone else was willing to at the time and for that I got to pick the 5 I wanted out of the 11 he had   Not smug at all just smart business

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2015, 03:48:11 PM »
Here is the proof version of the 1984 35th founding of PRC commemorative 3-coin set.  I found this set on ebay over 2 years ago and paid $100.  It has been the subject of previous posts.  I believe the value is around $10K but not sure since I have not check in a while



Yours seems to be the Shanghai mint set. Rare. ?<100 minted? Probably >$10,000 by now.

What appears to be the Shenyang mint variety sold on eBay yesterday for $420 (eBay# 141779544209). This is the highest sale price that I am aware of although I have not done any exhaustive search for prices. Prior sales were for less than $200. A real increase in valuation or whalepricing?

BTW the Shenyang variety has a much higher mintage.
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2015, 04:53:38 PM »
Yours seems to be the Shanghai mint set. Rare. ?<100 minted? Probably >$10,000 by now.

What appears to be the Shenyang mint variety sold on eBay yesterday for $420 (eBay# 141779544209). This is the highest sale price that I am aware of although I have not done any exhaustive search for prices. Prior sales were for less than $200. A real increase in valuation or whalepricing?

BTW the Shenyang variety has a much higher mintage.

Sale also included one of the original wooden boxes associated with the Shenyang mint sets.
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Offline 1668Chris

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Re: mini test
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2015, 05:22:45 PM »
Yours seems to be the Shanghai mint set. Rare. ?<100 minted? Probably >$10,000 by now.

What appears to be the Shenyang mint variety sold on eBay yesterday for $420 (eBay# 141779544209). This is the highest sale price that I am aware of although I have not done any exhaustive search for prices. Prior sales were for less than $200. A real increase in valuation or whalepricing?

BTW the Shenyang variety has a much higher mintage.

You are correct.  At the time of researching the set a couple of years ago there was thought to be around 50 sets.  I have not followed this for a couple of years so the numbers could have changed

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2015, 06:48:04 PM »
Very detailed information on the 35th anniversary Shanghai and Shenyang mint coins:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6501.0
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Re: mini test
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2015, 10:47:15 AM »
Nope not smug at all.     Paid the seller a fair price actually more than anyone else was willing to at the time and for that I got to pick the 5 I wanted out of the 11 he had   Not smug at all just smart business

I do not make any judgment.

It is just sad and terrible that you are proud of it and not able to recognize that you abused the situation of this person.
The best is when you cry out that you paid a fair price... 200 USD over spot... it means about 1300 USD and you dare to tell it is overpriced  N20  N20  N20

Come on... A little bit of dignity, please.  :thumbdown:

"Smart business" ?
Today, it is just the way how the steal is institutionalized.

"Là où il y a de la gêne, il n'y a pas de plaisir".

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2015, 10:54:48 AM »
Well who apparently you are severely misguided my friend the gentleman quoted me a price and I excepted.  So please do not make disparaging remarks unless you know the facts I paid the man exactly what he wanted so before you start making judgments of other people You might want to know the facts my friend

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2015, 11:19:24 AM »
Let's keep our tempers under control gentlemen.  There are lots of variables affecting a sale price.  For instance, if someone needs to sell rapidly, they have fewer options, and are limited to who ever is paying the best price.  Also, for this particular coin, the current value seems to be associated with condition.  Note that at the recent Stacks Auction, a PF66 of this coin sold for pretty close to spot price (and a PF67 went unsold?). 

http://www.stacksbowers.com/archivedetail.aspx?productid=16881599&ResultCount=1&sourcePage=archivesearchresults.aspx

If someone wants to take a gamble on grading it might be worth paying a bit more for an OMP in hopes that you get one of the rare 69s.  Just taking a look at the fuzzy photos that were posted, it looks like one of those has a forehead small rub and some dark copper spots, the latter of which may not always be able to be pristinely wiped by NCS.  My guess is that that one will not get an PF69?  Accordingly, it doesn't look like anyone overpaid or got taken advantage of, given current auction pricing.  If jc88888888 is was willing to buy multiple coins off the seller at one time, and jc88888888 was willing to offer a small premium over what a typical condition coin recently sold for (<$200), I see no harm.

In a similar vein, I was trying to sell a nice coin at a recent coin show.  I could point to auction results, but the dealers present at the show didn't need that particular coin on that day, so if I needed to sell on that day, I would have had to have taken a much lower price.  I walked away with the coin and put it back in storage for a while, but I may not always have that option if money gets tight.

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: mini test
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2015, 11:24:22 AM »
Well who apparently you are severely misguided my friend the gentleman quoted me a price and I excepted.  So please do not make disparaging remarks unless you know the facts I paid the man exactly what he wanted so before you start making judgments of other people You might want to know the facts my friend

That's the word "overpriced" which is really too much in your mouth.

And now you dare to write "I paid the man exactly what he wanted"... better and better  N20 N20 N20

As I told previously, I was in touch with him and I can tell you it is not the price he wanted for.
The only true is that he had to sell to any price because he was backed into a corner due to deep finacial troubles.
Do you really believe that 1300 USD for such medals could be a "wanted" price by his owner.

Come on... be serious and have a little bit of dignity !

But do not worry, my friend... as you say, you do "smart business".

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: mini test
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2015, 11:30:07 AM »
Birdman,

To get a good deal on the misfortune of somebody, it is a thing.
To boast of it and to be proud of it is an other one.
Personally, I know whom my sympathy goes to.
I do not tell anything else.
Now, if jc888888888 takes it bad, he must know why.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2015, 12:29:03 PM »
This situation might be a useful lesson regarding the lack of liquidity for the medals.  If you need to sell them quickly, it may be tough to find a buyer, especially if they are ungraded and are part of a series that is known for condition problems (1988 New Orleans).  If the owner was trying to sell problem-free examples of BU gold pandas of the main series, he would have probably had multiple offers from different dealers (I am assuming that this was at the Long Beach Show?).

On the flip side, if you are a very patient collector, you might be able to find a rare medal at a good price, and you may be able to make a good profit if you hold it until (when/if) the market better appreciates the rarity/beauty of that medal.  But you need to be willing to tie up $ in an uncertain venture.  jc88888888 is taking a calculated risk, tying up $5K+ of cash.  If he gets a high score on the NGC submission for a few coins, and if people start liking scarce medals more, he may have a good investment.  There are some ifs there, however.  There are risks on both sides.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2015, 12:29:26 PM »
Let's keep our tempers under control gentlemen.  There are lots of variables affecting a sale price.  For instance, if someone needs to sell rapidly, they have fewer options, and are limited to who ever is paying the best price.  Also, for this particular coin, the current value seems to be associated with condition.  Note that at the recent Stacks Auction, a PF66 of this coin sold for pretty close to spot price (and a PF67 went unsold?).  

http://www.stacksbowers.com/archivedetail.aspx?productid=16881599&ResultCount=1&sourcePage=archivesearchresults.aspx

If someone wants to take a gamble on grading it might be worth paying a bit more for an OMP in hopes that you get one of the rare 69s.  Just taking a look at the fuzzy photos that were posted, it looks like one of those has a forehead small rub and some dark copper spots, the latter of which may not always be able to be pristinely wiped by NCS.  My guess is that that one will not get an PF69?  Accordingly, it doesn't look like anyone overpaid or got taken advantage of, given current auction pricing.  If jc88888888 is was willing to buy multiple coins off the seller at one time, and jc88888888 was willing to offer a small premium over what a typical condition coin recently sold for (<$200), I see no harm.

In a similar vein, I was trying to sell a nice coin at a recent coin show.  I could point to auction results, but the dealers present at the show didn't need that particular coin on that day, so if I needed to sell on that day, I would have had to have taken a much lower price.  I walked away with the coin and put it back in storage for a while, but I may not always have that option if money gets tight.

THANK YOU BIRDMAN ! , I will not lower myself to to even bother responding    ,I will tell you all the coins had copper spots and 2 of the five I bought had slight head rubs ..the gentleman  who sold them to me was aware sent me pictures of all of them and we agreed upon the price without any haggling ,I then paid him immediately without fees for the coins ,Now what the same seller told me someone who was trying to buy the coins was going back in forth with him for over a week running background checks on him:)   I don't know who that was but one could guess  .I bought 2 88 new orleans ,2 88 munichs  and 1 87 san francisco   ,all the gentleman had left ,was 5 1987 New orleans   (not quite as desirable ) and 1 88 new orleans with a bad head rub .As I said  it took me 60 minutes to complete the transaction SO maybe some sour grapes here possibly??  ,while whoever that other person was going back in forth for 6 days with the seller WHOMEVER THAT WAS  :It seems I made a decision agreed upon a price and paid the gentleman he was very happy with the transaction .

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: mini test
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2015, 01:14:10 PM »
he was very happy with the transaction .

Content of last email with I have had with the seller: (I can feel his happiness)

Quote
Needed to liquidate faster than I wanted to for financial reasons.
I know I lost my butt. It sucks.
Thank you for your interest.
I'm sad.


When you are in front of the wall, you begin to slander.
Sad to see which kind of person you are but thank you for showing your real face.

The way you do "smart business"... N25

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2015, 01:22:27 PM »
Next topic, guys.  Enough said.

Offline comeaux

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Re: mini test
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2015, 07:18:38 PM »
Nobody forced the seller to sell, he's a grown man and it was his decision ... I'm sure if he could have gotten a better price somewhere else then he would have done so but he didn't.

As far as I'm concerned jc88 did the seller a favor, he had coins to sell and jc88 obliged him with buying the coins.  

End of story

oh and by the way ... very nice coins in this thread guys, thanks for posting !  :thumbup:

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2015, 07:23:54 PM »
Nobody forced the seller to sell, he's a grown man and it was his decision ... I'm sure if he could have gotten a better price somewhere else then he would have done so but he didn't.

As far as I'm concerned jc88 did the seller a favor, he had coins to sell and jc88 obliged him with buying the coins.   

End of story

oh and by the way ... very nice coins in this thread guys, thanks for posting !  :thumbup:

Thanks my good friend!  Hows the family?  hope everyone is well !!   the boy has to be getting big!!

Offline comeaux

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Re: mini test
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2015, 07:44:21 PM »
Thanks my good friend!  Hows the family?  hope everyone is well !!   the boy has to be getting big!!

Hey JC ! Yea all is good here for sure and thanks for asking ... I hope all is well on your end too ! Things in the oilfield are tanking but fortunately I'm about to retire and have done well in the last 35 years. My son is now 4 and it's crazy how time flies and how fast they grow ! I wish he could stay 4 forever as it's such a fun age ... He just started Pre-K

sorry to derail the thread, this forum needs a section for "random - post whatever" discussion as a few of the other forums I'm on they have this and it promotes camaraderie & unity as people get to know each other better. 

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2015, 07:51:14 PM »
:):)  kids are great!! cherish it!!

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2015, 05:11:50 PM »
This situation might be a useful lesson regarding the lack of liquidity for the medals.  If you need to sell them quickly, it may be tough to find a buyer, especially if they are ungraded and are part of a series that is known for condition problems (1988 New Orleans).  If the owner was trying to sell problem-free examples of BU gold pandas of the main series, he would have probably had multiple offers from different dealers (I am assuming that this was at the Long Beach Show?).

On the flip side, if you are a very patient collector, you might be able to find a rare medal at a good price, and you may be able to make a good profit if you hold it until (when/if) the market better appreciates the rarity/beauty of that medal.  But you need to be willing to tie up $ in an uncertain venture.  jc88888888 is taking a calculated risk, tying up $5K+ of cash.  If he gets a high score on the NGC submission for a few coins, and if people start liking scarce medals more, he may have a good investment.  There are some ifs there, however.  There are risks on both sides.

It therefore follows that the "mintage trap" phenomenon does not just affect only new low mintage coins and medals as previously discussed in this forum. It can also be at play when buying or selling older low mintage coins and medals, especially the medals. Where there is a small collector base efficiency of transactions can be impaired as not many people will be interested in particular items. But does this always hold in every case, whether new or old (medal)?
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2015, 06:27:21 PM »
 Keep on trying I agree with what you said old versus new there might not be too much of a distinction but that being said  I like the risk reward of buying these my floor is whatever an ounce of gold is worth whereas when you buy let's just say for instance a 2 ounce silver medal for three or $400  The floor is whatever the metal content is worth I guess what I'm saying today I basically have two or $300 at risk also  The half ounce Munich metals are doing quite well I have watched raw ungraded versions on German eBay going for some pretty strong money lately I'm a gold bug so I'm very via bias

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2015, 08:04:41 PM »
Keep on trying I agree with what you said old versus new there might not be too much of a distinction but that being said  I like the risk reward of buying these my floor is whatever an ounce of gold is worth whereas when you buy let's just say for instance a 2 ounce silver medal for three or $400  The floor is whatever the metal content is worth I guess what I'm saying today I basically have two or $300 at risk also  The half ounce Munich metals are doing quite well I have watched raw ungraded versions on German eBay going for some pretty strong money lately I'm a gold bug so I'm very via bias

And what you are saying is also true because the numismatic premium of silver coins and medals is often many times the bullion value. Therefore if the foundation of the numismatic valuation of a particular coin or medal is undercut, the price can collapse and holders may be left clutching just a bunch of precious metals! The key is buying as cheaply and as close to bullion price as possible and that is more likely with gold coins and medal. I try to compensate a little bit by buying heavy silver medals hoping that in the worst case scenario there'll be enough bullion in it to feed the family a few times over!
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Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2015, 05:31:31 PM »
Showing the unloved a little love. 

A new gold proof purchase (87P) at a nice price makes an attractive trio.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: mini test
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2015, 07:28:48 PM »
Birdman,

"Unloved"?! Let me know when you stop loving them. I'd want to give them a loving home.  :001_tt1: N66

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #68 on: December 12, 2015, 07:45:14 AM »
love those unloved :)   an 18,000.00   1995 1/2 oz  gold panda price?? (you can hear the air rushing out of that balloon)  and you have pictured  a 1991 p in perfect grade!!  3500 total mintage ???????   unloved ??  maybe more accurate is undervalued or sleeper?? :)  and while the other 2 are more common still 10k mintage??  Big fan here of those gold proof sets :) and the 1987 in pf70 is for sure a grade rarity the 25y and 50y  seem to be difficult to grade pf69 never mind pf 70

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2015, 06:05:02 PM »
This snapshot image will not win any photography awards, but if you look closely, there is a different beauty.  This photo includes a purchase I received today that completed a puzzle.   The collector in me raises a glass in celebration N47 N38  

Offline SANDAC

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Re: mini test
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2015, 06:38:57 PM »
Congratulation!  Very impressive.    :001_wub: N3 N47 N47

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2015, 07:28:34 PM »
nice!!

Offline silverpv

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Re: mini test
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2015, 09:06:13 PM »
so pretty...

Offline allgeekspcstore

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Re: mini test
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2015, 08:31:19 PM »
wow love all the pics on here. You guys have some nice chinese coins! -TheGEEK

Offline wittu

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Re: mini test
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2016, 01:29:48 PM »
Hi,

i really don`t believe in MCC 2016   :001_rolleyes:

 :001_tt1:





wittu  N48

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2016, 02:30:01 PM »
Wow

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2016, 05:37:17 PM »
Now you can see where all those 2016 coins went too!
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Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2016, 05:00:37 PM »
Oh dear.  My pulse rate increased when I removed this from the packaging.   After five years of collecting G1/2, I finally have a 1998.  I was not willing to pay the big bucks before, but a few extra semi-keys I had purchased have done well, so I traded.  Time will tell if it was a good "investment," but the collector in me is feeling good right now.  1982-2007 g1/2 complete date set, with a good number of varieties.  I'll try to take a photo later.

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: mini test
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2016, 05:16:40 PM »
Congrats, Birdman! That's a great accomplishment, and one I envy very much.

If you have any multiples you want to get rid of, let me know :)

Offline silverpv

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Re: mini test
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2016, 05:22:31 PM »
very nice Birdman!

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2016, 05:50:31 PM »
The 1998 1/2oz Gold Panda Coin is a very BIG  :thumbup: DEAL!

I shiver to think of the cash equivalent of your transaction.  N8

The time it took for you to acquire this coin gives me hope of future possibilities.

Congratulations!  N31
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Offline Pandora

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Re: mini test
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2016, 06:33:46 PM »
Congratulations Birdman! A great collection  N31

Offline pandaccumulator

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Re: mini test
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2016, 11:20:47 PM »
Nice key date!

Offline mook

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Re: mini test
« Reply #83 on: April 27, 2016, 03:34:43 AM »
Birdman  :thumbup:

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #84 on: April 27, 2016, 07:09:34 PM »
I'll share this, as it will be a long time before I reach a milestone of similar significance.   N38 

I hesitate to calculate the time I spent researching the coins, finding examples that were priced favorably, negotiating, etc.  I'll just take this photo and go home and pour a glass of wine  N47

Offline trozau

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Re: mini test
« Reply #85 on: April 27, 2016, 07:42:58 PM »
Nice collection!
trozau (troy ounce gold)
honi soit qui mal y pense

gold - the barbarous relic!

Offline paul4444

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Re: mini test
« Reply #86 on: April 27, 2016, 07:56:05 PM »
Great collection.  What was your personal best experience in getting one of these coins?  I love to here stories of the journey. 

Offline mazinger7000

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Re: mini test
« Reply #87 on: April 27, 2016, 07:59:46 PM »
amazing collection. just curious why you blacked out the numbers? i have seen others do this sometimes, but am unclear what the reason is. congratulations on this fantastic collection!

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: mini test
« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2016, 08:09:14 PM »
Nice I especially like the storage bags!

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2016, 08:18:54 PM »
Great collection.  What was your personal best experience in getting one of these coins?  I love to here stories of the journey. 

So many stories.   The first one to come to mind was a 2003 G1/2 MS70.  Within my first 6 months of collecting Chinese coins, I bought it OMP for not much over spot price and sent it in for grading.  It was the first 2003 G1/2 MS70 graded.  That was an intriguing eye-opener, and a bit of an adrenaline rush.  Here is my post as a newbie to the forum. 

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3541.msg16685#msg16685

After five years, there are still only five 2003 G1/2 MS70.  I have two at the moment.  Perhaps there is a special affection given my early experience.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2016, 08:21:00 PM »
amazing collection. just curious why you blacked out the numbers? i have seen others do this sometimes, but am unclear what the reason is. congratulations on this fantastic collection!

I black them out to deter some bozo counterfeiter from using an NGC certification number for one of my coins to make a fake slab.  Perhaps I am paranoid, but I don't want that headache of having known fake slabs with a NGC certification number that matches my legitimate coins.

Offline paul4444

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Re: mini test
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2016, 09:09:39 PM »
I love it way cool.  It's amazing how different experiences drive us to reach unforeseen goals. Thanks man

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2016, 11:11:32 PM »
I black them out to deter some bozo counterfeiter from using an NGC certification number for one of my coins to make a fake slab.  Perhaps I am paranoid, but I don't want that headache of having known fake slabs with a NGC certification number that matches my legitimate coins.

You are not paranoid for opacifying slab numbers and bar codes. I do it myself whenever I remember. It is clear that fakers are already using harvested slab numbers for their fake products. But coin sales sites such as eBay and TPGs like NGC/PCGS could be more readily available resources for the fakers.

More concerning for me is the loss of privacy which could result in questionable to outright nefarious use of such information including tracking. Precious metal collection has privacy as an inherent characteristic; protecting you from shady characters and institutional "shakedown artists"!

Once more, Congratulations and Great Job!
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Offline NBM

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Re: mini test
« Reply #93 on: April 28, 2016, 04:56:43 AM »
Bravo, quite an accomplishment!

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2016, 06:20:57 PM »
I will be torn between looking for coins and looking for birds (among other things) during my upcoming first trip to China. :w00t:

Offline jc888888888

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Re: mini test
« Reply #95 on: June 06, 2016, 06:29:12 PM »
cool enjoy !

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2016, 12:53:15 AM »
I will be torn between looking for coins and looking for birds (among other things) during my upcoming first trip to China. :w00t:

You must visit some of the Chinese classical gardens. Do some endurance training and climb the Great Wall. It will be a great idea to visit one of the mints. Post Live Photos. Yes, you can also watch the Birds and buy some coins!
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Offline dynamike51

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Re: mini test
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2016, 01:22:49 AM »
I'll share this, as it will be a long time before I reach a milestone of similar significance.   N38 

I hesitate to calculate the time I spent researching the coins, finding examples that were priced favorably, negotiating, etc.  I'll just take this photo and go home and pour a glass of wine  N47

 :001_tt1:   :thumbup:


Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #98 on: June 14, 2016, 08:06:01 PM »
You must visit some of the Chinese classical gardens. Do some endurance training and climb the Great Wall. It will be a great idea to visit one of the mints. Post Live Photos.

Here is a photo of a garden from yesterday's visit to the Forbidden City.  Our tour goes to the Great Wall today.  The car in the parking lot of the hotel is an example of big money displays.  Our tour guide bought an apartment for $80k years ago and then sold it for $800k.  He has two other apartments.  A tour guide! 

A 1500 sq ft home that we visited yesterday seemed like nothing special, but they said it was worth $2.5 million?!

I still haven't had time to find a coin shop during business hours.  :)

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #99 on: June 14, 2016, 08:08:10 PM »
I couldn't post both photos because of size too big...

Nice car from hotel parking lot! 

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #100 on: June 14, 2016, 09:00:05 PM »
Here is a photo of a garden from yesterday's visit to the Forbidden City.  Our tour goes to the Great Wall today.  The car in the parking lot of the hotel is an example of big money displays.  Our tour guide bought an apartment for $80k years ago and then sold it for $800k.  He has two other apartments.  A tour guide! 

A 1500 sq ft home that we visited yesterday seemed like nothing special, but they said it was worth $2.5 million?!

I still haven't had time to find a coin shop during business hours.  :)

From my little experience I believe that some tour guides are very enterprising and provide value added services to tourists that earn them extra income including heavy tipping by happy tourists. But mine may be a simplistic explanation.

Depending on which part of the Wall you climb be ready to make frequent stops and feel free sitting on the steps from time to time to catch your breath. Don't give up; you can do it!
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Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #101 on: June 15, 2016, 09:01:04 PM »
I asked my tour guide about the coin shops.  He's going to do a little research to see if there are any near the places we'll be staying for the rest of our travels in China.  Interestingly, I showed him some photos of the gold pandas and he had never heard of them.  That one anecdote suggests that awareness of gold pandas is low in China.  He was very interested to learn that they were made of .999? gold, that they had 5 denominations for each year, and that the design changes each year.  Considering he recently sold his $800,000 apartment, perhaps I've given him an idea of an alternative investment  ;). He said he didn't want to touch the Chinese stock market because it is so volatile and manipulated.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: mini test
« Reply #102 on: June 15, 2016, 09:55:44 PM »
There are no street corner coin shops in China. Dealers stay in one place. Madian (马甸) is where they are mostly located in Beijing. You can give this link to your tour guide: http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=_iOR0IJDZ_g8nD9fr0aHSPY3cn3sFlVpoXmj6u74yInS9gr6FJ0fh2oKP9NiK4SzOHfvxkRv68s3Q9GvuIjlgq

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #103 on: June 18, 2016, 05:23:50 AM »
There are no street corner coin shops in China. Dealers stay in one place. Madian (马甸) is where they are mostly located in Beijing. You can give this link to your tour guide: http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=_iOR0IJDZ_g8nD9fr0aHSPY3cn3sFlVpoXmj6u74yInS9gr6FJ0fh2oKP9NiK4SzOHfvxkRv68s3Q9GvuIjlgq

Thanks, but our group left Beijing before I could visit the shops.  Not much free time, but it is a great experience.  I think I'll have an unscheduled afternoon when we are in Shanghai.  That may be my best chance to see a good coin market.  I may also have some free time in Chengdu, if there is a coin market worth visiting.  Do you have a similar link I could show my tour guide for either of those two cities? 

We traveled between Lhasa and Xian today.  Wow, the number of apartment buildings being constructed is astounding.  I had heard about the building bubble in China, of course, but to actually see it makes quite an impression.  It makes you shake your head in disbelief when you see the innumerable construction cranes as you drive around the city.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #104 on: June 18, 2016, 08:32:58 AM »
Have you done any of those journeys on the high speed train? Wonderful experience!

I don't know if your tour group itinerary includes visits to the Yuyuan (Yu Garden) in Shanghai and the Mountain Resort Garden in Chengde.

Some of our prominent MCC sellers reside in the cities you may be traveling through such as Xu, Lucky, Dragon and thincat00. I am sure they would be chaughed for the "CCF Birdman" to drop in for a visit to their shop! Alternatively they may be able to point you to some local shops in the cities you are passing through. Beware of fakes if buying from unknown sellers; look your tour guides in the eyes and tell them you don't want fakes!  N23

We need more photos!
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Offline fwang2450

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Re: mini test
« Reply #105 on: June 18, 2016, 10:31:37 AM »
Here is the name and link to the coin market in Shanghai: 卢湾区局门路600号卢工邮币卡市场, http://map.baidu.com/?newmap=1&s=con%26wd%3D%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%8D%A2%E5%B7%A5%E5%B8%82%E5%9C%BA%26c%3D289&from=alamap&tpl=mapdots. The first dot on the map.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: mini test
« Reply #106 on: June 18, 2016, 01:25:44 PM »
Here are the name, address and telephone # for direct distributors of China Gold Coin Inc.

      Shanghai

        Name              Tel#                   Fax #                    Address
3003    上海申泉工贸有限公司    021-62551239    021-62551239   上海市静安区石门一路78号    200041
3004    上海金国咨询服务有限公司    021-63231753    021-53500210   上海市梅园路77号上海人才大厦21楼2106室    200002
3005    上海银泰文化艺术品有限公司    4008801360    021-63855208   上海市建国东路330号    200023
      

      Xian

2028    西安华夏钱币有限公司    029-87628867    029-87614553   陕西省西安市莲湖区西大街琉璃街口西侧144号    710002

      Lhasa

3030    西藏银桥股份有限公司    0891-6335732 0891-6326898    0891-6336327 028-85109037   西藏拉萨市金珠路54号    850000


      Chengdu

3031    成都金丰盈钱币有限公司    028-86655111 028-86655031    028-86673750   四川省成都市北新街26号    610016


Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #107 on: June 19, 2016, 05:04:36 AM »
Here are the name, address and telephone # for direct distributors of China Gold Coin Inc.

      Shanghai

        Name              Tel#                   Fax #                    Address
3003    上海申泉工贸有限公司    021-62551239    021-62551239   上海市静安区石门一路78号    200041
3004    上海金国咨询服务有限公司    021-63231753    021-53500210   上海市梅园路77号上海人才大厦21楼2106室    200002
3005    上海银泰文化艺术品有限公司    4008801360    021-63855208   上海市建国东路330号    200023
      

      Xian

2028    西安华夏钱币有限公司    029-87628867    029-87614553   陕西省西安市莲湖区西大街琉璃街口西侧144号    710002

      Lhasa

3030    西藏银桥股份有限公司    0891-6335732 0891-6326898    0891-6336327 028-85109037   西藏拉萨市金珠路54号    850000


      Chengdu

3031    成都金丰盈钱币有限公司    028-86655111 028-86655031    028-86673750   四川省成都市北新街26号    610016



Thanks poconopenn.

My tour bus dropped me off on a street corner and I hailed a cab across town on an adventure to the Xian shop.  I've attached some photos.  Not many old pandas.  I asked if the had any 1990-2006 and they just laughed, as if that hasn't happened in a long time.  I don't speak Chinese, unfortunately, so I couldn't ask a lot of the questions I would have liked to ask.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #108 on: June 19, 2016, 05:09:55 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #109 on: June 19, 2016, 05:10:57 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #110 on: June 19, 2016, 05:13:14 AM »
.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #111 on: June 19, 2016, 05:14:11 AM »
.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #112 on: June 19, 2016, 05:15:11 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #113 on: June 19, 2016, 05:16:03 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #114 on: June 19, 2016, 05:17:02 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #115 on: June 19, 2016, 05:18:49 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #116 on: June 19, 2016, 05:23:30 AM »
OK, those are the highlights from the Xian shop.  Sorry for so many posts, but things didn't load well if I tried to attached too many photos.  I'll see if I can find time to see some coins in other cities :). Fun, and it makes me feel even better about my collection of older pandas, given how few I saw here, although maybe this type of shop only ever carries the newest material?

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Re: mini test
« Reply #117 on: June 19, 2016, 07:58:27 AM »
Birdman thank you for the great pictures.  I feel like we were there with you in the shop.  For us that can't get out of the states this makes quite a vivid picture of the happenings outside the US.  Thank you for sharing. 

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Re: mini test
« Reply #118 on: June 19, 2016, 09:26:37 AM »
Yes, it is hard to find older Pandas at China Gold coin stores across China. Your best bet for older coins is still the coin markets at Beijing Madian, Shanghai Lugong and another one in GuangZhou i think, ive been to the first two. Madian is the biggest, following by Lugong. Do note that in the current market, older gold Pandas are not widely available and you may find prices no where cheaper than US and ebay though, but cultural and other MCCs are still a plenty to choose from.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #119 on: June 19, 2016, 11:18:25 AM »
There is a coin market in Xi'an. It opened two years ago. One of the stores there belongs to Mr. Gao, a very well-respected dealer who handles modern Chines coins. I visited the market shortly after it opened and before it was fully occupied. It is probably even better now.

店铺地址:
西安市新城区民乐园文化街北区008号唐晋阁
西安市新城区西华门华山邮币卡市场213号唐晋阁      

Good luck.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

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Re: mini test
« Reply #120 on: June 19, 2016, 01:09:14 PM »
Birdman,

IMO, the store you visited at Sian is one of the largest in China, based on the large poster for 3rd series banknote set with the same serial # on the front door. This is a very rare set with current valuation at least $100,000.

Most stores inside China do not have pre-2000 pandas, gold or silver, except few large dealers in the city of Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou. Chengdu may have some, since it is nearby the panda habitant.
 
Just for information.

Your tour guide may take your group to jade store at Sian and Shanghai.

Most jades in Sian are fake, made with polymer composite. The genuine jade will feel the coolness when in contact to the chin. The fake one will be close to your skin temperature, after rubbing with finger for 30 seconds, while the genuine will be about the same coolness.  The quality of the jade can be determined using a high power flashlight (reliable store will provide it) to check the impurity and hairlines inside the stone. The less the impurity and hairlines the better the quality.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #121 on: June 19, 2016, 07:22:58 PM »
Birdman thank you for the great pictures.  I feel like we were there with you in the shop.  For us that can't get out of the states this makes quite a vivid picture of the happenings outside the US.  Thank you for sharing. 

You are welcome.  Perhaps this will motivate others to post photos of the Chinese coins that are available in their local coin shops around the world.  It is very interesting to see the global distribution of modern Chinese coins.  It is nice to be a coin tourist by logging on to this forum and looking at pictures.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #122 on: June 19, 2016, 07:28:49 PM »
There is a coin market in Xi'an. It opened two years ago. One of the stores there belongs to Mr. Gao, a very well-respected dealer who handles modern Chines coins. I visited the market shortly after it opened and before it was fully occupied. It is probably even better now.

店铺地址:
西安市新城区民乐园文化街北区008号唐晋阁
西安市新城区西华门华山邮币卡市场213号唐晋阁     

Good luck.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Thanks.  I leave Xian  today, so I probably won't have time to visit it, but I hope this thread will be a resource for future travelers to China, who will now have advance knowledge of the locations of some coin stores and markets.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #123 on: June 19, 2016, 07:36:17 PM »
Birdman,

IMO, the store you visited at Sian is one of the largest in China, based on the large poster for 3rd series banknote set with the same serial # on the front door. This is a very rare set with current valuation at least $100,000.

Most stores inside China do not have pre-2000 pandas, gold or silver, except few large dealers in the city of Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou. Chengdu may have some, since it is nearby the panda habitant.
 
Just for information.

Your tour guide may take your group to jade store at Sian and Shanghai.

Most jades in Sian are fake, made with polymer composite. The genuine jade will feel the coolness when in contact to the chin. The fake one will be close to your skin temperature, after rubbing with finger for 30 seconds, while the genuine will be about the same coolness.  The quality of the jade can be determined using a high power flashlight (reliable store will provide it) to check the impurity and hairlines inside the stone. The less the impurity and hairlines the better the quality.


Thanks.  My ability to identify fake Jade is like the typical eBay buyers ability to identify genuine raw silver pandas on eBay.  Not good and high risk!  :)  We did visit the Xian Jade Workshop.  Interesting, and likely a lower risk of getting a fake there.  But, I chose not to buy anything there, given my limited knowledge (and my limited funds).

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Re: mini test
« Reply #124 on: June 20, 2016, 12:16:07 AM »
Thanks.  I leave Xian  today, so I probably won't have time to visit it, but I hope this thread will be a resource for future travelers to China, who will now have advance knowledge of the locations of some coin stores and markets.

There are postings in the CCF archive that contain complimentary information. Maybe someone needs to pull them all together into one thread!
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #125 on: June 20, 2016, 12:26:09 AM »
Birdman,

IMO, the store you visited at Sian is one of the largest in China, based on the large poster for 3rd series banknote set with the same serial # on the front door. This is a very rare set with current valuation at least $100,000.

Most stores inside China do not have pre-2000 pandas, gold or silver, except few large dealers in the city of Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou. Chengdu may have some, since it is nearby the panda habitant.
 
Just for information.

Your tour guide may take your group to jade store at Sian and Shanghai.

Most jades in Sian are fake, made with polymer composite. The genuine jade will feel the coolness when in contact to the chin. The fake one will be close to your skin temperature, after rubbing with finger for 30 seconds, while the genuine will be about the same coolness.  The quality of the jade can be determined using a high power flashlight (reliable store will provide it) to check the impurity and hairlines inside the stone. The less the impurity and hairlines the better the quality.


I wonder if most of the pre-2000 gold panda coins are still outside China and the few that have made it back are now in very strong hands?
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #126 on: June 20, 2016, 05:15:35 AM »
I wonder if most of the pre-2000 gold panda coins are still outside China and the few that have made it back are now in very strong hands?

Based on dealer inventories in the USA and the difficulty in finding older gold Pandas, I doubt that this is the case today. During this decade there has been pretty much of a big one-way street to China for gold Pandas, although that doesn't mean the well is dry yet. A few areas, like 1980s coins that sell for close to melt value, are still fairly easy to come by outside of that country. That may be because it is not worth dealing with customs for coins that have minimal numismatic premiums.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacolleactor.com

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Re: mini test
« Reply #127 on: June 20, 2016, 06:32:23 PM »
Thanks.  My ability to identify fake Jade is like the typical eBay buyers ability to identify genuine raw silver pandas on eBay.  Not good and high risk!  :)  We did visit the Xian Jade Workshop.  Interesting, and likely a lower risk of getting a fake there.  But, I chose not to buy anything there, given my limited knowledge (and my limited funds).

Your "limited knowledge and limited funds" served you very well! You did not allow your self to be ripped-off by the jade hucksters. Many people wear it in China. It is like a status symbol. I never looked twice (or even once) at someone's jade bracelet, etc. Their jade is about as rare as the 2-B gravel on the driveway. Hahaha! 

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Re: mini test
« Reply #128 on: June 21, 2016, 02:40:39 AM »
What does a panda lover do when in Chengdu?  See the Giant Pandas and the Red Pandas.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #129 on: June 21, 2016, 02:41:39 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #130 on: June 22, 2016, 06:38:29 PM »
An anecdote:  As I travel around China, I find it interesting that although many websites are blocked by the government, the Chinese Coin Forum always loads up quickly and completely.  I can't say the same about Google, Facebook, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and others.  Perhaps the government wants to encourage coin collecting :)  Or perhaps we've done (fairly) well at keeping our conversations focused on topics related to coins and not strayed into extraneous social or political topics.  Or perhaps our website traffic is too small for anyone to care! Either way, it is nice to see that this great resource seems to be readily accessible within China.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #131 on: June 22, 2016, 07:29:45 PM »
It must be the avoidance of social/political/religious diatribe together with a wholesome consideration of the material of interest here. Plus the huge database of information in the CCF archives.
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Re: mini test
« Reply #132 on: June 22, 2016, 07:45:32 PM »
Another hazy day in Chengdu.  Our guide said the surrounding mountains trap the pollution from the coal fired power plants and the ever increasing number of vehicles.  I wouldn't want to expose my coin surfaces to this soup.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #133 on: June 22, 2016, 09:43:28 PM »
try not to expose your lungs for too long either birdman:(

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Re: mini test
« Reply #134 on: June 23, 2016, 06:34:36 AM »
I took the bullet train at 300 km/hr from Chengdu to Chongqing today.  I am embarrassed to say that if you asked me, before this trip, to find these two cities on a map of China, I would not have been able to.  Yet they are both so massive, there are so many people, so many cars, so much construction, that it is just overwhelming.  The guide said that 90% of the cars on the road (lots!) were made here in China through various partnerships with most of the major world auto brands.  Then I think of all the construction activity.  I think of all the business that make the materials (Windows, faucets, carpet, steel, concrete, etc).  There has been such a huge amount of economic activity and wealth creation for businesses that there is a mountain of money looking for a home.  It seems like even a small increase in awareness of gold pandas as an investment option (which seems likely) would put strong pressure on prices.  After what I have seen thus far, I feel very confident in the price potential of my focus, semi-key gold 1/2 oz pandas, especially the ones that haven't popped yet.  It is just this one man's opinion, but you've got to see China in person to grasp what has been going on here.  Wow.  And the surviving population of some of these pandas is so low.  Whoops, it sounds like now I'm drinking the kool-aid!  Gotta run...

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Re: mini test
« Reply #135 on: June 23, 2016, 07:26:57 AM »
China is a powerhouse of economic activity.
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Re: mini test
« Reply #136 on: June 23, 2016, 11:47:40 AM »
China used more cement between 2011 and 2013 than the U.S. used in the entire 20th Century.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #137 on: June 23, 2016, 11:48:11 AM »
Yes, things are moving fast in China. On the subject of the expanding coin collector/buyer base, no doubt panda coins are low in supply (key/semikeys) but one thing to take into account imo is that besides Pandas, there is a wide variety of other MCC offering for buyers. Besides the ever popular lunars, commemoratives and cultural coins, some recent year minted series are getting popular too for example good fortune, auspicious culture, world heritage, Dun Huang, grottoes, sacred mountain... etc. there are plenty. From my understanding pandas are always (been?) regarded as bullion generally in China and the market for them is still small comparing to other coins. So i guess the question is besides panda set demand from wealthy individuals, how will be the panda market as a whole be projected in the future?

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Re: mini test
« Reply #138 on: June 23, 2016, 11:51:36 AM »
you've got to see China in person to grasp what has been going on here.  Wow.

+1

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
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Re: mini test
« Reply #139 on: June 23, 2016, 01:00:45 PM »
China used more cement between 2011 and 2013 than the U.S. used in the entire 20th Century.
Very interesting point you make regarding cement usage. It is important to know that in China, everything I saw, new and old construction (residential and commercial), had concrete poured into the walls of structures. Even the roofs were concrete! I watched them do this. In U.S. we mostly use wood framing in residential construction.

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Re: mini test
« Reply #140 on: June 23, 2016, 02:06:00 PM »
China used more cement between 2011 and 2013 than the U.S. used in the entire 20th Century.

Of course... they build dozens of million unsaleable apartments  :001_rolleyes:

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Re: mini test
« Reply #141 on: June 23, 2016, 05:28:03 PM »
Of course... they build dozens of million unsaleable apartments  :001_rolleyes:

I have seen very little of this in my travels around the country. China is a huge place and I'm sure it is true somewhere, that not every development is successful. However, usually if I return a year or two later the formerly deserted towers look occupied. I am curious about it, too, due to Western news stories. At this point, based on personal, random, unscientific experience, I suspect it may be close to an urban myth.

Back to discussing coins?

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
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Re: mini test
« Reply #142 on: June 23, 2016, 06:04:10 PM »
I have seen very little of this in my travels around the country. China is a huge place and I'm sure it is true somewhere, that not every development is successful. However, usually if I return a year or two later the formerly deserted towers look occupied. I am curious about it, too, due to Western news stories. At this point, based on personal, random, unscientific experience, I suspect it may be close to an urban myth.
Some huge developments create sprawling unoccupied ghost cities and super malls as is evident by this YouTube clip on Dateline.
How much concrete do projects like this use?
How much do these projects factor into China's inflated GDP claims?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E

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Re: mini test
« Reply #143 on: June 23, 2016, 07:48:49 PM »
Some huge developments create sprawling unoccupied ghost cities and super malls as is evident by this YouTube clip on Dateline.
How much concrete do projects like this use?
How much do these projects factor into China's inflated GDP claims?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E

This report was aired in 2011. Here are links to 2012 photos of Zhengzhou New District. The writer commented (back in 2012) that the area was starting to fill up:

http://www.newgeography.com/files/zhengzhou2.jpg
http://s245.photobucket.com/user/z0rgggg/media/another%20one/12041510534f5c50be7fd02cf4.jpg.html

It would be interesting to visit these same places today and see how the "ghost cities" have fared since the 2011 broadcast. It's a big deal to own your own flat in China and I don't think the demand has hit the saturation point yet. For what it's worth, I know three families that have purchased and moved into new flats in the last six months. Just like in the USA, people buy a lot of new furniture and appliances when they do that. Good for GDP.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacolleactor.com

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #144 on: June 23, 2016, 09:03:43 PM »
My visit to China in 2014 was made despite the "concerns" of an acquaintance who attempted to show me YouTube videos and web clips of what I termed baseless propaganda. I am happy I made that trip because it deepened my understanding of the society, people and country but by no means made me an expert.

I don't think you can discuss anything China in one or two paragraphs so I won't even try here. Except to say that things that don't initially make sense become clearer with time, so watch that country closely and learn!
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #145 on: June 23, 2016, 09:20:45 PM »
Yes, things are moving fast in China. On the subject of the expanding coin collector/buyer base, no doubt panda coins are low in supply (key/semikeys) but one thing to take into account imo is that besides Pandas, there is a wide variety of other MCC offering for buyers. Besides the ever popular lunars, commemoratives and cultural coins, some recent year minted series are getting popular too for example good fortune, auspicious culture, world heritage, Dun Huang, grottoes, sacred mountain... etc. there are plenty. From my understanding pandas are always (been?) regarded as bullion generally in China and the market for them is still small comparing to other coins. So i guess the question is besides panda set demand from wealthy individuals, how will be the panda market as a whole be projected in the future?

Add to this mix the average Chinese citizen’s attitude towards the panda coins of old. One of my recently arrived Chinese clients characterized Panda coins as something the government manufactured for sale overseas to generate revenue.

Obviously this may not be representative of the view in China but the pre-2000/pre-2010 coins may be more for the hard core enthusiasts in China who have more discretionary income compared to the average citizen of whom the new release panda coins may be at par with all the recent mintages you have outlined in your post.

Again, we are just trying to figure out future directions and magnitude of interest in Pandas coin collection in China (and in other parts of the world).
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: mini test
« Reply #146 on: June 23, 2016, 09:31:20 PM »
It would be interesting to visit these same places today and see how the "ghost cities" have fared since the 2011 broadcast. It's a big deal to own your own flat in China and I don't think the demand has hit the saturation point yet. For what it's worth, I know three families that have purchased and moved into new flats in the last six months. Just like in the USA, people buy a lot of new furniture and appliances when they do that. Good for GDP.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacolleactor.com


There are new "small ghost cities" nearby cities which are depending on heavy industry production, such as steel and coal mining in the northern and south eastern part of China. Most large cities have relaxed the residential requirement recently and make the movement of population form countryside to city accelerated. It takes more than 5 years (2010-now) to fill the "ghost apartment buildings" at Shanghai. They are many apartments bought by investors and have never occupied.    

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Re: mini test
« Reply #147 on: June 23, 2016, 11:56:52 PM »
Add to this mix the average Chinese citizen’s attitude towards the panda coins of old. One of my recently arrived Chinese clients characterized Panda coins as something the government manufactured for sale overseas to generate revenue.

Ten years ago many people claimed that Panda coins would always lag behind "true" Chinese coins in value.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: mini test
« Reply #148 on: June 24, 2016, 04:21:12 PM »
I have seen very little of this in my travels around the country. China is a huge place and I'm sure it is true somewhere, that not every development is successful. However, usually if I return a year or two later the formerly deserted towers look occupied. I am curious about it, too, due to Western news stories. At this point, based on personal, random, unscientific experience, I suspect it may be close to an urban myth.

The only thing I know is that chinese banks are full of non-performing loans and the amount of derivatives is outrgeous... as western banks in fact.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #149 on: June 26, 2016, 09:59:59 AM »
The view of Shanghai that greeted me upon arrival to the hotel room tonight.  Wow!  This is quite the modern city with ample affluence.  I hope to make it to the coin market tomorrow.

Offline NBM

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Re: mini test
« Reply #150 on: June 26, 2016, 01:43:22 PM »
The view of Shanghai that greeted me upon arrival to the hotel room tonight.  Wow!  This is quite the modern city with ample affluence.  I hope to make it to the coin market tomorrow.
Nice shot!  :thumbup:

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2016, 04:08:31 AM »
First, +1 and many thanks to moosician for showing me around the big Shanghai coin market.  It makes things much more interesting to have a bilingual host so that I could interact with some of the dealers.  It is also nice to actually meet some of the dealers I had sold coins to across the Pacific Ocean over the past several years.

Overall, I was quite impressed with the volume of various gold and silver Chinese coins present.  The biggest surprise, and difference from coin shows and markets in the US, was that the Shanghai market had so many of the big (5 oz +) silver and gold modern Chinese coins (I'll post some photos).  There were quite a few that I have never seen in the US.

My favorite of the many (100+) coin and stamp stands was that of Mr Jin.  He kindly let me take a photo of him and his shop.  He had a nice selection of excellent gold pandas, even some 1995 G1/2 for sale.  Some dealers had G1/2 in their case but would not sell them.  For instance, I saw a nice 1996 SD G1/2 NGC MS69 from a different dealer, but that one wasn't for sale.

Xu Hong had plenty of nice material in his shop too.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2016, 04:10:37 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2016, 04:12:13 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2016, 04:14:09 AM »
.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2016, 04:32:26 AM »
One of the most interesting things I observed at the Shanghai coin market today was a dealer at one of the small center tables.  What caught my eye was she was holding an empty cut-open OMP square.  I was puzzled at what she was doing, but then I saw her size up a certain raw gold panda and the slide it into the "OMP".  It was essentially a reseal job casually done in the open public! Done as if it was done every day and there was nothing notable about it.  I sensed what was happening so a pressed record and documented the event on my phone.  The video is probably too big to upload here, but that was an eye opener.  I will never again buy an OMP panda without being very suspicious of whether it is Resealed.

That event excluded, it was a great visit to the Shanghai market.  I have never seen so many Chinese coins in one place!

From what I could gather, a few dealers we still actively assembling gold panda master sets.  Demand still exceeded supply.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2016, 04:37:41 AM »
A screen shot of my video of the dealer putting the raw gold panda into the cut open OMP.

Offline NBM

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Re: mini test
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2016, 05:05:26 AM »
Could you tell if she was resealing with official mint looking seals or were they they obvious fake OMP seals like the ones with rounded corners?
If they were official mint looking seals were they year and mint appropriate?

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2016, 05:33:39 AM »
Could you tell if she was resealing with official mint looking seals or were they they obvious fake OMP seals like the ones with rounded corners?
If they were official mint looking seals were they year and mint appropriate?

They looked official to me.  I rewatched the video and they are square corners.  I want to say that it was the OMP with the writing on the edge (Shenzhen? Can't remember right now?) but I'm not certain.  I think the coin was a 2006? 

Offline NBM

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Re: mini test
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2016, 05:56:29 AM »
Shenzhen Guobao would be correct for any after 2005
5.   According to China Gold Coins Inc website, as well as red book and Mr. Ge, starting 2005, gold pandas were issued by three Mints (Shanghai, Shenyang and Shenzhen). However, I have not seen any gold panda in Shanghai, and Shenyang mint pouch for any size after 2005, except the 2008 1/20 oz sheet found by 1668Chris. Two large dealers inside China also had never seen any post-2005 gold pandas in Shanghai and Shenyang mint pouch either.


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Re: mini test
« Reply #160 on: June 27, 2016, 07:15:37 AM »
"According to China Gold Coins Inc website, as well as red book and Mr. Ge, starting 2005, gold pandas were issued by three Mints (Shanghai, Shenyang and Shenzhen)."

I consider the China Gold Coin website information to be correct all the way up through 2016.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline moosician

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Re: mini test
« Reply #161 on: June 27, 2016, 07:37:55 AM »
@ Birdman,

Was great to meet a fellow CCF member here. Was a pleasure :)
Regarding the 'reseal' coin that you saw, im quite sure this practice is not uncommon but a possibility is that some dealers get the coins out to blow torch away red spots. Ive seen this countless of times, for silver, they dip it in silver cleaning solution, presumably to improve the appearance, then they reseal it.

Offline Honus

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Re: mini test
« Reply #162 on: June 27, 2016, 01:11:20 PM »
Hey Birdman, and hello to everyone!  It's been a while since I've been active here on the board, but have been stopping by to check out the latest happenings.  Great pictures, Birdman, sounds like a fantatic trip.  Love seeing all those large denomination gold coins - that would be the highlight of my trip, as far as coins go.  Haven't made it to China yet, but it's on the list.   Great to see so many people still active here on the forum.  Will make another post soon - have some gold 2003 1/2 and even after reading any and all threads about mirror vs. frost and fat leg vs thin leg (lol) I think I'm still a little stumped.  Again, congrats on what looks like a fantastic trip, Bird.
Eric Liquori
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #163 on: June 27, 2016, 01:52:48 PM »
A screen shot of my video of the dealer putting the raw gold panda into the cut open OMP.

I believe that the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of a high rate of OMP resealing everywhere. Makes it impossible for anyone to be 100% sure that an OMP is indeed an OMP!

Even OMP collectors may be tricked by the use of custom designed resealing machines; nothing difficult with replicating the mint seal template.
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Offline UniqueCoins

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Re: mini test
« Reply #164 on: June 27, 2016, 05:30:18 PM »

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Re: mini test
« Reply #165 on: June 29, 2016, 03:26:27 AM »
Birdman,
Great story and pics. Thanks for sharing.
I look fwd to my trip to Shanghai in 2 weeks, unfortunately I will only have time for a short visit to Lugong and with limited funds.
Cheers,
Mowi

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #166 on: May 25, 2017, 04:51:40 PM »
I traded some extra 69s pieces that have done well for some 70s.  These came in the mail today.  The premiums have dropped enough on some of these 70s that I couldn't resist upgrading a few areas of my G1/2 and G1/4 collection.  The collector in me was too tempted, even if 70s are a wildcard with a less certain return.

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: mini test
« Reply #167 on: May 25, 2017, 04:54:57 PM »
Hmmm . . . I wonder where you got those from? ;)

Congrats. I had my eye on that 1995 1/4 70 but never pulled the trigger.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #168 on: May 25, 2017, 04:57:09 PM »
Hmmm . . . I wonder where you got those from? ;)

;)

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Re: mini test
« Reply #169 on: May 25, 2017, 05:49:06 PM »
That's a nice group of bears.

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #170 on: July 22, 2017, 08:50:29 PM »
I haven't shared in a while.  This photo is missing a few coins that were in a different box, but my G1/4 collection is starting to take shape.  I've mainly been focused on G1/2, and I've only bought G1/4 opportunistically, here and there over many years, when I thought the price was too good to pass up.  Recently, however, I splurged a bit and traded a few extra G1/2 that had done well for some nice G1/4 to fill in some gaps in the series.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #171 on: July 22, 2017, 10:48:51 PM »
I haven't shared in a while.  This photo is missing a few coins that were in a different box, but my G1/4 collection is starting to take shape.  I've mainly been focused on G1/2, and I've only bought G1/4 opportunistically, here and there over many years, when I thought the price was too good to pass up.  Recently, however, I splurged a bit and traded a few extra G1/2 that had done well for some nice G1/4 to fill in some gaps in the series.


Great job.
Quite a few 70's.
Next stop a complete date, proof, and variety set!
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Offline mook

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Re: mini test
« Reply #172 on: July 24, 2017, 10:49:02 AM »
 N31 Beautiful collection
1990 sd 69, very very hard to find

Offline Birdman

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Re: mini test
« Reply #173 on: June 22, 2018, 09:40:55 PM »
There hasn't been enough eye candy posted on this site recently.  Here is one of my purchases from this week  :001_smile:

Offline mook

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Re: mini test
« Reply #174 on: June 23, 2018, 06:43:59 AM »
 N31 Pop 2
No worries for long-term value

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: mini test
« Reply #175 on: June 23, 2018, 07:00:44 PM »
Pop 2 after 27 years is definitely future proofed. Congrats!
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