Author Topic: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC  (Read 31990 times)

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Online KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2015, 08:28:15 PM »
I think we're going through a phase in human nature where little by little the layers are being peeled back to see what's beneath and not everything is pretty.

If humanity is going to evolve we will need to deal with this. Pretending it doesn't exist hasn't seemed to have helped humanity much.

So you are now the Crusader! Charity begins at home; try el bee see first!!!!! :001_tt2: :lol: N16 N25
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2015, 08:38:06 PM »
Stop badgering the forum please. You are wasting precious internet space.

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2015, 08:48:49 PM »
Stop badgering the forum please. You are wasting precious internet space.

Exercise your seniority in constructive ways and help your friend learn how to behave appropriately in forums. He cannot swagger in and insult forum members, impugn their integrity and then slink away! BTW have you smited me today or is your button suffering from overuse?!!!!!!!! N18
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Offline pandamonium

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2015, 09:18:00 PM »
There already is a long thread on fen coins of PRC: 
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1078.0



Thanks for the link, lots of good info.    Do not have many UNC fens but due to the price rise it has caught my attention.....

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2015, 09:35:53 PM »
Exercise your seniority in constructive ways and help your friend learn how to behave appropriately in forums. He cannot swagger in and insult forum members, impugn their integrity and then slink away! BTW have you smited me today or is your button suffering from overuse?!!!!!!!! N18

My use of the term "friend" may be presumptuous so I withdraw the word and the associated smiting remark. But some group is smiting me heavily and this clandestine activity illustrates one of the very destructive effects of smiting on online forum relationships and equiamity. Someone needs to bring davidt under control. He is actually not good for the atmosphere here. No one should be allowed to disrupt our quiet enjoyment of coin collection at will in such a consistent way as he has done.
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Offline poconopenn

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2015, 10:11:02 PM »
I suggest you read posts back around 2011-2013 when CCF promoted the 3.3oz silver God of Wealth in 69 as a $5600 medal. Then, if you wanted one, certain unnamed CCF members would require you FedEx the $5600 in small denomination notes. The veterans were largely around at that time.

Now it's a $900 medal.



You know very well that CCF doesn't provide profiles so what is verifiable?

Then there was the ousting of Badon which I never agreed to.  It was based 100% on gossip. A smear campaign.

If you can read you can educate yourself.

But when Badon was ousted many (some say thousands)  of posts- many containing important data on MCC were deleted  The community archives were deleted by the moderator. Noone has that right.


Here is the fact.

CCF, during the large part of time span you mentioned was still under the control of ex-administrator. Three veterans were banned by ex-administrator and many veterans stop to post to protest in the later part of 2012 for the lack of transparency and the appearance of “conflict of interest” of ex-administrator. No file has been deleted and I still can find those threads.

The issue is related to the balance of privacy and transparency. Seller in this site, just like any place, has to be more transparency and sacrifice some privacy to avoid any appearance of “conflict of interest”. Buyer has to do his/her DD, not just for the coin/medal to be purchased, but also the seller to be purchased from.
 
CCF is an ad-free, very clean public forum. All moderators are volunteers and IMO, they have done an excellent job to keep this forum as safe as possible for new collectors to learn unbiased opinion about MCC. In addition, all moderators have excellent experience and knowledge in coin collection. Their wisdom are invaluable and we should all grateful for their services.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2015, 10:15:22 PM »
I think David is referring to this thread started by badon in August 2011:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3818.0
I read through it,, but didn't find any reference to fed ex small bills.  Maybe it is a side deal went bad.

SANDC,

Thanks for the link. It is a great educational material for members in this forum.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2015, 10:23:01 PM »
I agree with Peter, especially on the last paragraph. One point I want to add about base metal circulating coins is that they are known to everybody in China and have a much larger collector base. The membership of the circulating coin collection site coin001.com grew from 20,000 when I joined it in mid 2013, to about 80,000 now. This rapid expansion of the collector base is driving up the prices of base metal coins. I have met with some people who started base metal coin collection by searching through their pocket change and noticed something weird about the coins (doubled dies, very late die state, cracked dies, die rotation, cuds and so on). This advantage of popularity, in addition to the extremely low entry point, contributes to the rise of the circulating coins, the collection of which, by the way, has a much shorter history than precious metal coins. Serious base metal coin collection in China started only this century.

Totally agree.

The circulated commemorative Cu-Ni coins, especially the proof version, has been one of the few sections which has shown significant expansion of numismatic premium during the down market in the last three years, especially after some of the circulated coins listed at the Exchanges during last 12 months.  However, UNC aluminum fen coins was completely opposite. This might have something to do with the “pumping and dumping”, most likely unintentional, by few dealers at coin001.com in the earlier years. Many supposedly to be rare fen coins turned out to be not the case and the valuation of those coins had dropped about 50-80% during last three years. The mint and proof sets (1991-2000) are relatively stable in price. The large size copper medals, similar to PM MCC, the valuation has dropped since 2012.

Offline comeaux

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2015, 10:39:46 PM »
Here is the fact.

CCF, during the large part of time span you mentioned was still under the control of ex-administrator. Three veterans were banned by ex-administrator and many veterans stop to post to protest in the later part of 2012 for the lack of transparency and the appearance of “conflict of interest” of ex-administrator. No file has been deleted and I still can find those threads.

The issue is related to the balance of privacy and transparency. Seller in this site, just like any place, has to be more transparency and sacrifice some privacy to avoid any appearance of “conflict of interest”. Buyer has to do his/her DD, not just for the coin/medal to be purchased, but also the seller to be purchased from.
 
CCF is an ad-free, very clean public forum. All moderators are volunteers and IMO, they have done an excellent job to keep this forum as safe as possible for new collectors to learn unbiased opinion about MCC. In addition, all moderators have excellent experience and knowledge in coin collection. Their wisdom are invaluable and we should all grateful for their services.

Excellent post poconopenn and I have to agree that the current moderators have done an exceptional job with this forum. Not only have the mods performed flawlessly but senior members such as you, Arif, Frank, hippanda, Joe & Jeremy and MANY others have contributed significant time and resources to make this forum the best source of information for MCC on the internet.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2015, 11:08:09 PM »
Thank you for your valuable part too, Comeaux, in making that a reality, for standing for right and disclosure when it was not necessaily a popular position. 
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2015, 11:31:31 PM »
 N31

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2015, 02:20:24 AM »
Excellent post poconopenn and I have to agree that the current moderators have done an exceptional job with this forum. Not only have the mods performed flawlessly but senior members such as you, Arif, Frank, hippanda, Joe & Jeremy and MANY others have contributed significant time and resources to make this forum the best source of information for MCC on the internet.

Thank you for your valuable part too, Comeaux, in making that a reality, for standing for right and disclosure when it was not necessaily a popular position. 

When you seek the truth you rigorously examine available information and make a good faith best effort attempt to discover what it is telling you. As far as I know CCF was founded in 2008 and was a pioneer trailblazing forum for the interaction of those who had interests in studying Chinese coinage. This included individuals with varying interests in collecting, investing, trading and manufacturing coins and medals produced by mints usually located in China.

The Forum has enjoyed a pre-eminent status as a result of the continued hard work of forum members and staff including the founder. They have all selflessly shared their great enthusiasm for this area of endeavor with the international community. Despite any previous stumbles along the way it is clear that CCF enjoys the reputation for providing the best information based on current evidence using the "best practices" approach.

I wish to thank all of you who have stayed engaged all these years to assuage our thirst for the often bewildering and continuously evolving information available on many of these coins whose manuals and manifest seemed to have been thrown away after they were minted. Such is the joy of Chinese coin collection, with all the detective work and educated guesses, and yes, the drama!

As for me I just tune in from time to time to spend time with the boys, and girls too, learning as much as I can, saying what I can and keep on asking myself where I was in 1982 when the first panda coins (coins?, medals?, non-fiat coins?) hit the streets!
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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2015, 02:58:03 AM »
Alchemists were preoccupied with turning base metals into gold and producing elixirs for long life. Alchemists don't exist anymore, we think, and base metals have remained base metals.

Undoubtedly copper, bronze and brass produce great looking medals and these have been popular both in China and internationally. The market is being tested with different configurations of these medals with skyrocketing prices. The problem is how high these medals will soar before hitting turbulence?

This is more likely if the medals are not allowed to evolve naturally, if the market is flooded with variants of the same theme, if crass commercialism and self interest once more try to insist on an alternate reality as the norm.

That is also when the modern approach to alchemy will "surprisingly" lead to the same results of old!
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Offline Birdman

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2015, 06:49:49 AM »
CCF is an ad-free, very clean public forum. All moderators are volunteers and IMO, they have done an excellent job to keep this forum as safe as possible for new collectors to learn unbiased opinion about MCC. In addition, all moderators have excellent experience and knowledge in coin collection. Their wisdom are invaluable and we should all grateful for their services.

Excellent post poconopenn and I have to agree that the current moderators have done an exceptional job with this forum. Not only have the mods performed flawlessly but senior members such as you, Arif, Frank, hippanda, Joe & Jeremy and MANY others have contributed significant time and resources to make this forum the best source of information for MCC on the internet.

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the vote of confidence.  It is nice to be appreciated.

I'll emphasize one word in Poconopenn's post:  "Volunteer".  I am not a retiree.  I have a real job in addition.  There were 57 posts yesterday.  I think I read them all, and responded to several where I thought appropriate.  I get a certain satisfaction and education from helping to moderate, but believe me there are many other things that are competing for my limited time and attention besides this forum.  With that in mind, I ask you to step inside the shoes of a moderator, and I ask you to treat each other the way you'd like to be treated.  I know there is always the temptation to fire off that quick post to jab at someone else or to pound your chest a bit.  It might give you an adrenaline rush.  But that can tend to cause reciprocal harsh words towards you.  Then people start smiting, then moderators get PMs.  All of that takes time.

I think we've really got some great momentum going recently on this forum.  Let's keep it up, but also elevate the, "treat others with respect, and leave your egos at the door" just a little more.

 N38

Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: Why Copper/Brass/Bronze MCC will outperform Precious Metals MCC
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2015, 10:49:21 AM »
I apologize to the other members but because he comes back with this on the forum, I have to reply.

If you are deluding yourself that doesn't go on here then look no further than a few days back Tao-Panda was able to slander me and call me a cheat and do so with impunity.
Once again, I did not slander you.
What I have written is only a fact.
You lied to me and tried to swindle me but fortunately for me, PayPal protection was there.
So, I strongly suggest you to stop threatening, to be less agressive and to stop snivelling.
Just assume what you did and do not try to look like a victim.  N32 N32 N32

And if you do not remember who I am, I suppose it is because you try to swindle so many people that you do not know which one of them I am.  :blink:

He's not banned and continued his smearing  both in public posts and privately on messages to me.
I only see a single slandering person here.

For the record, I still have all the proof about this case... as PayPal has.