Author Topic: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal  (Read 20493 times)

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Offline zafeu

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2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« on: May 30, 2015, 05:49:58 AM »
Hi everyone.
My first post here, just to report 2 amazing varieties among the copper Nanjing panda 2014: the gate side may be rotated by about 30 degrees clockwise or trigonometric way. Here are the NGC references: 3877904-066 (trigonometric) and 3877904-057 (clockwise). According to dragonzeng dealer, the clockwise one is the rarer.
Really amazing varieties among a mintage of only 380 ! I think it's the first "rotate" variety seen among the panda coins/medals... Am I right?

Offline Birdman

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2015, 07:38:36 AM »
Hi everyone.
My first post here, just to report 2 amazing varieties among the copper Nanjing panda 2014: the gate side may be rotated by about 30 degrees clockwise or trigonometric way. Here are the NGC references: 3877904-066 (trigonometric) and 3877904-057 (clockwise). According to dragonzeng dealer, the clockwise one is the rarer.
Really amazing varieties among a mintage of only 380 ! I think it's the first "rotate" variety seen among the panda coins/medals... Am I right?

Here is a link to a previously discussed die-rotated panda.
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=8656.msg50430#msg50430

If you are new to the forum, and interested in some of the new releases such as the Nanjing Mint medals, it may be worth reading the following thread.
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11367.msg65952#msg65952

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2015, 08:05:07 AM »
zafeu,
Minor die rotation is quite common in modern Chinese coins.  Most of them are too minor to be recognized. 

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7805.0

I measured the die rotation of the two NGC coins you mentioned and the rotation is 29.7 degrees.  The rotation of the 1991 25Y panda mentioned in Birdman's link is 28 degree and that is sufficient to receive the "mint error" designation.  So there is a reasonable chance that one of the Nanjing panda 2014 may receive the mint error designation.

Offline zafeu

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2015, 09:29:57 AM »
Thank you very much for these informations. The admin may cancel my post. It's a newbie's one ;)

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2015, 12:33:05 PM »
The rarity of the error coin depends on the minting company. The highly respected Mints such as US Mint, Perth Mint, Royal Canadian Mint, etc., in a rare instant, produces an error coin. Therefore, the error coins produced by those Mints will command a higher premium over the non-error coins because of its rarity. However, when a Mint with a not so good reputation and produces a high percentage (about 30% for this medal) of error coin, such as Nanjing Mint, it is just a poor minting process and the premium over non-error coins is very limited, unless it can improve its minting technology and becomes a reputable Mint in the future.
 
2014 Nanjing Mint panda medals are poorly made and its design is very similar to 1995 5 oz. silver panda coin. Attached are pictures of 2014 Nanjing Mint silver panda medal, 1995 fake 5 oz. silver panda and 1995 genuine 5 oz. silver panda.

barsenault

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2015, 04:34:12 PM »
I know, here we are, one of the favorites of many in this community.  I know, the horrible medal, the bald medal, the sucky Nanjing mint.  :w00t:

However, after 3 tries, I'm happy to say, they finally listened.  It took cajoling, encouraging, and possibly setting up a call with the Nanjing Mint to prove they were authentic.  N17 Luckily they complied, and I'm one who has paved the way for others to now be graded...I think there are only 3 pieces graded.   :001_tt2:  And there are only 30 planned, actual is probably a bit lower.

Thanks for encouraging me to post this - you know who you are.   N66

I had 3 sets.  Sold one a while ago.  And one goes in the treasure box.  And this is my last one for sale.  





chinesemedals.com

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2015, 04:50:01 PM »
Looks like your medals made it into NGC slabs eventually. Congratulations! Perhaps later on you can share with us some of the insight you gained from this venture. I already picked up on the importance of making copies of COAs and enclosing with rare or brand new coin submissions. Seems like you spoke to them on the phone too. I assumed that the Chinese mints had communication channels set up with the grading agencies for proactively communicating new coin information and data. You are certainly persistent and pioneering. Got to give you that. Good job!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline Russ 736

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 06:29:09 PM »
Barsenault,
                I had no idea there were two of us pushing for these medals to be recognized. They had been entered into the NGC Panda medals set so I figured that they had already graded a set when I sent mine in for grading. Guess what? they sent them back as not verifiable. I contacted NGC and had a conversation that must have sounded a lot like the ones you had with them. They questioned the OMP ( they had removed that during their process ) and then said they didn't get the COAs ( I included them with the medals as I always do ). I resubmitted them with the COA copies the original size in color and a set of 150% size so they could read them easily. I offered to send in the boxes ( as you know, they are somewhat unique ) but they declined that offer. Then they sat on them for over a month and when they moved to graded/quality control, they stayed there another month. I thought they would wind up getting kicked back. I got tired of waiting for the bad news so I contacted Lisa Berzins ( a very nice lady ). She followed up and found that they had been graded but another medal in the order required a special slab. They are waiting on that medal to be finished to ship everything together. Congratulations and thank you for your work to get your set graded as I'm sure it had to help get mine graded too.

Russ

barsenault

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 08:38:21 PM »
Hey Russ and KOT,

Yes, I was very disappointed initially too.  But then my disappointment turned to determination.  I think you and I had similar experiences Russ.  I sent mine in with no COA the first time.  I know, rookie move.  Actually, I was a little nervous about them losing my COA's.  Then they said, well, just send your medals back, and include the COA's.  I did so.  I sent the originals.  I made sure they knew how important it was that I get those back.  They send them back again, unverifiable.  I was ticked.  I finally contacted some folks over in China, and asked if they could put me in touch with the Nanjing Mint, or perhaps write on their letterhead, saying they were authentic. I was given the go ahead to write the note, and they would put it on the letterhead.  So I wrote a note letting them know what the options are.  I said I can broker a conversation with the nanjing mint to prove their veracity or send a letter with their letterhead, where they indicate they are legit.  I get a call from Laura a couple days later, she said, we don't need anything, we will grade them.  I sent them in, and finally got them in today.  It was not an easy or simple process, but I'm glad we stuck by our guns.  Now the world can know they are authentic, even though we knew all along. :-))  Yes, even from that sucky mint otherwise known as the Nanjing mint. hehehe. 

Congrats on scoring a PF68.  I scored a PF68 and PFF67.  The 68's are getting tucked away for a long, long time.  I guess the standard to shoot is PF69 (probably the equivelent of PF70 in antique).  Here's to hoping someone gets one out of the 30 that may be out there. 

Thanks guys.  I'm glad our perseverance won them over. 

andrewlee10

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 11:58:34 PM »
The rarity of the error coin depends on the minting company. The highly respected Mints such as US Mint, Perth Mint, Royal Canadian Mint, etc., in a rare instant, produces an error coin. Therefore, the error coins produced by those Mints will command a higher premium over the non-error coins because of its rarity. However, when a Mint with a not so good reputation and produces a high percentage (about 30% for this medal) of error coin, such as Nanjing Mint, it is just a poor minting process and the premium over non-error coins is very limited, unless it can improve its minting technology and becomes a reputable Mint in the future.
 
2014 Nanjing Mint panda medals are poorly made and its design is very similar to 1995 5 oz. silver panda coin. Attached are pictures of 2014 Nanjing Mint silver panda medal, 1995 fake 5 oz. silver panda and 1995 genuine 5 oz. silver panda.


Please give us a list of error medals and coins minted by Nanjing Mints so we can category Nanjing mints is in bad reputation and always make errors.

As I know Royal Mints also mints wrong the horse and Britannia 2014. However, I do not know the errors of whole mintage. So can we make Royal Mints is bad reputation? I say NO.

2013 and 2014 proof silver Britannia are white spot around. How about compare  to Nanjing mints silver product. Is Nanjing mints tend to produce white spot silver product?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2015, 11:36:28 PM »
Please give us a list of error medals and coins minted by Nanjing Mints so we can category Nanjing mints is in bad reputation and always make errors.

As I know Royal Mints also mints wrong the horse and Britannia 2014. However, I do not know the errors of whole mintage. So can we make Royal Mints is bad reputation? I say NO.

2013 and 2014 proof silver Britannia are white spot around. How about compare  to Nanjing mints silver product. Is Nanjing mints tend to produce white spot silver product?

Nanjing Mint is the factory to supply minting and printing machine to other Mints and banknote printing companies. The major products are minting and printing machines, Cu-Ni circulated coins and government coupons.  The China Mints (Shanghai, Shenyang and Shenzhen) have made more than 400 medals annually during last three years. Usually, those medals were commissioned by the third parties with mintage less than 5,000.  Nanjing Mint has no expertise in make medals, especially medal made with PM. Perhaps, you can provide names of medals made by Nanjing Mint in the past, since I do not know any and have no interest to do the search either.


Here is another example of risk involving in investing in recently issued medal. This Kuan Yin medal issued by Shanghai Mint in later Jan. of this year. The mintage of copper, 1 oz. silver and 2 oz. silver are 1599, 99 and 199 respectively with offering prices of RMB99, RMB850 and RMB850. Now, after 7 1/2 months, they are still available at the same price.

http://shop.jibi.net/dispbbs.asp?boardid=25&id=300199&page=2&star=1

IMO, the Nanjing Mint medal mentioned in this thread is more like two baby polar bears than panda, since panda has black fur on the arms, legs, area around the eye and ears. Just look at the attached original design of this medal and compare to the finished medal, clearly, Nanjing Mint had done a very poor job. The silver medal is very similar to those fake pandas seen at eBay, no black fur in any part of panda.

The white spots will be developed if the silver coin/medal is not stored properly. The number of white spots also depends on the total area of mirror surface in the design. The Nanjing medal has a very limited mirror surface. 

barsenault

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 11:42:53 PM »
lol.  And I don't mean the pictures posted.

andrewlee10

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2015, 11:55:28 PM »
Nanjing Mint is the factory to supply minting and printing machine to other Mints and banknote printing companies. The major products are minting and printing machines, Cu-Ni circulated coins and government coupons.  The China Mints (Shanghai, Shenyang and Shenzhen) have made more than 400 medals annually during last three years. Usually, those medals were commissioned by the third parties with mintage less than 5,000.  Nanjing Mint has no expertise in make medals, especially medal made with PM. Perhaps, you can provide names of medals made by Nanjing Mint in the past, since I do not know any and have no interest to do the search either.

You quote Nanjing mints is poor quality for medal producing BUT is saying now "since I do not know any and have no interest to do the search either". This statement is contradict. If not knowing and not searching then say an official mints is bad.....

andrewlee10

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2015, 12:08:17 AM »
Here is another example of risk involving in investing in recently issued medal. This Kuan Yin medal issued by Shanghai Mint in later Jan. of this year. The mintage of copper, 1 oz. silver and 2 oz. silver are 1599, 99 and 199 respectively with offering prices of RMB99, RMB850 and RMB850. Now, after 7 1/2 months, they are still available at the same price.

http://shop.jibi.net/dispbbs.asp?boardid=25&id=300199&page=2&star=1



the first page of the sell thread of jibi in your link state the price and someone still buying now. However, it does not stated the agreed buying price.



Look at this which china auction house sell at 456 for PF69 brass which omp is at 99. if omp 99 plus grading fee is 150 which cost is 249 which sold at 456 which is 1 times higher. Take into consideration the auction house commission yet to include in the 456.

Reader here have common sense.

andrewlee10

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Re: 2 varieties of the Nanjing mint panda 2014 copper medal
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2015, 12:20:25 AM »
IMO, the Nanjing Mint medal mentioned in this thread is more like two baby polar bears than panda, since panda has black fur on the arms, legs, area around the eye and ears. Just look at the attached original design of this medal and compare to the finished medal, clearly, Nanjing Mint had done a very poor job. The silver medal is very similar to those fake pandas seen at eBay, no black fur in any part of panda.

The white spots will be developed if the silver coin/medal is not stored properly. The number of white spots also depends on the total area of mirror surface in the design. The Nanjing medal has a very limited mirror surface. 


First, this is ugly and bald panda design by Nanjing mints which I totally agree. However, this is selling so well even there are few type of material used for this ugly and bald design panda. Why those collectors buy it and pay for high premium???? All of them loss of mind and no brainer?

1995 silver panda coin is 2 siting panda which 2014 Nanjing panda is one siting and another one is walking which is not copy for my personnel view. You can wait for the panda expo 3 medal design by shanghai mints and comment on it. Please remember to keep commenting on it like this Nanjing panda. Otherwise I am suspecting something is wrong.

Frank Wong and other collectors have done a lot research on white spot development on coins and medal. Storage is one of the small factor for the white spot development which is not the main factor.

You claim Nanjing mints has poor minting technology as compare to other. White spot of coins/medal can cause by minting technology and processes. Please post as many photo here to prove that Nanjing mints produce poorly design and white spot prompted products than three other official mints and internationally mints. Maple by Canada mints, proof britannia 2013 and 2014, all tend to white spot which due to the minting processes as my view.

Panda expo 1, macao panda expo 1, long corridor of classical garden and recent years of silver bullion panda coin which produce by Shanghai mints which you claim more superior than Nanjing mints for minting technology are all famous of white spot. Why you are not mentioned it on and on and on?

I will be away for few weeks which might not access to internet. Hope the readers understood the situation and this is my personal view and no manipulation.

I sold many Nanjing panda even I do not like the design. I am seller which product has demand I likely to sell if I has access to it. I sold many panda expo 1 and long corridor classical garden too. I sold monster box silver panda coin too.