Author Topic: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin  (Read 5113 times)

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Offline Little Finger

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Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« on: April 13, 2015, 08:46:30 AM »
Authentic ?

Offline TomG

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2016, 10:26:15 PM »
Hello,

It looks correct and similar to this specimen:
1899 Kirin 7 mace and 2 candareens Y-183; 26.41g (27.0 | 26.1 g reference); 39.1mm (39 | 38.5mm diameter reference); 2.45mm thickness


Offline Buyao

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 11:45:20 PM »
Check all the clouds. They are very different.

Offline TomG

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 01:49:05 PM »
Yes the clouds are different between the first and second specimens. Perhaps it is just my naivety, but if diameter, thickness, weight and overall appearance are within acceptable tolerances, differences are attributable to die variations and wear. Even PCGS and non-PCGS examples show variation in clouds, flame counts, flower arrangements and even legend markings.

Although image02949.jpg raises red flags in my opinion, that coin's authenticity is endorsed by Noble Numismatics and whoever slabbed the coin,

chin-k385-1.jpg 11-flames, flower arrangement 9mm wide, 9 tail spines 1899 (close match to Kirin_1899_7M-n-2C_Y-183.jpg, 11-flames, flower arrangement 11mm wide, 9 tail spines)
http://anythinganywhere.com/new/1103/auc-7.html

26555728_32162404_2200.jpg AU-53 11-flames, 1899
80085410_1634884_2200.jpg AU-52  11-flames, 1899
32913293_49098197_2200.jpg XF-45  11-flames, 1899
http://www.pcgs.com/prices/valueview/149857?cid=4622

http://anythinganywhere.com/new/1102/chin-k281d-1.jpg 7-flame, 1898
http://anythinganywhere.com/new/1102/chin-k281a-1.jpg 9-flame, 1898
http://anythinganywhere.com/new/1102/auc-6.html

image02949.jpg ungraded 6-flames, 1899, Kiangnan-like clouds (obverse), different year marking  legend (reverse)
http://www.coinarchives.com/5ab6f978f1291abbb06d8a1950de7646/img/noble/110/image02949.jpg
http://www.coinarchives.com/w/results.php?search=kirin+1899&s=0&results=100

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 05:55:07 PM »
The coin posted by Little Finger has 7 rows of scales on dragon and 7 flames, while the coin posted by TomG has 4 rows of scales and 11 flames, which is the standard design for this 1899 Kirin dollar. I have never seen 1899 Kirin silver dollar with design as posted by Little Finger. The surface of the coin appears to be acceptable except the area shown in the attached picture. IMO, this is a questionable coin.


Offline TomG

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 10:45:44 PM »
Could it be a 6-row scaled dragon from 1898 design paired with a floral arrangement design from 1899?

This link shows an 1898 Kirin dollar with six scale rows, nine flames and nine tail spines:
http://st.coinshome.net/coin-image-1_Dollar-Silver-China-MlIKbzbiVPQAAAFMatArqgkn.jpg
http://www.coinshome.net/en/coin-1_Dollar-Silver-China-EmkKbzbiFXwAAAFMbc8rqgkn.htm

There opposing coin face has only small differences in the 1898 legend compared with the similar 1899 legend.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2016, 12:06:44 AM »
There are many variations for undated Kirin silver dollar. However, for dated 已亥 (1899) Kirin, the variation is limited. According to Kann’s book, number of row of scales on dragon is always 4.

Offline linlaujiou

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2016, 09:30:07 PM »
Authentic ?
敬告機制幣同好,撿漏當撿如此漏!
假幣在本質上缺少真幣獨特的防偽巧思及暗記佈局,所謂暗記就是人為刻意的瑕疵,旨在迷惑造假者有陷於同模傷的風險,因此學會看懂瑕疵屬於人為刻意的暗記還是不經意損傷,有助於錢幣真假的判斷。
1899年吉林己亥七錢二分,看造假者做出扭扭捏捏的庫字圖樣,就知道當初造幣設計者已經成功達成防偽目的。
俺說造假業者與錢幣鑑定公司都還有很大的進步空間。

Offline linlaujiou

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Re: Kirin Province 7 Candarins Dragon Coin
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2016, 09:44:29 PM »
 N34