Author Topic: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals  (Read 192469 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
  • Karma: 172
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #270 on: July 10, 2015, 11:37:57 AM »
Got an idea! Why don't we start a new thread dedicated to the artists and engravers behind these MCC coins and medals? It will act as some type of database or fact file that will not be lost in other threads and can be directly acessible. I'll start the thread and see how it goes. Here we go!
I have been thinking about such a database for some time. Starting a thread here on CCF is easy, but it will make searching difficult. Besides, pictures are not allowed in the posts, which limits their use as I intend to post photos of the artists.

One more problem is that the posts cannot be edited after some time (5 minutes?). What if I have an artist in a post, and after a period of time I have additional information and want to add to that post?

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #271 on: July 10, 2015, 11:44:00 AM »
I have been thinking about such a database for some time. Starting a thread here on CCF is easy, but it will make searching difficult. Besides, pictures are not allowed in the posts, which limits their use as I intend to post photos of the artists.

I started a thread already. We can always migrate information later on to anywhere else on this forum if that is what you mean. I don't know if I misread you. Do you mean to say that we cannot post photos here on CCF? I see a lot of photos here already. Please clarify and thanks.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
  • Karma: 172
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #272 on: July 10, 2015, 12:38:39 PM »
I started a thread already. We can always migrate information later on to anywhere else on this forum if that is what you mean. I don't know if I misread you. Do you mean to say that we cannot post photos here on CCF? I see a lot of photos here already. Please clarify and thanks.
The photos are attachments. You cannot post them in the post itself, unless it is a link from elsewhere.

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #273 on: July 10, 2015, 03:20:59 PM »
Frank, fwiw your blog has always served me well as a definitive resource that can be linked and referred to.
http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/
Also, it may be helpful if you linked to it in your forum profile so that the uninitiated can find it.

Edit: I see it is in your forum signature.  :thumbup1:

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #274 on: July 25, 2015, 06:51:36 AM »
2 weeks and all is quiet?
FWIW, NGC & PCGS have the Summer Palace Gate census up.
PCGS seems to be kinder in grading the antique silver?
The sold listings on eBay seem to indicate around 6 more sales of the medals in the last 2 weeks.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #275 on: July 25, 2015, 10:42:27 AM »
2 weeks and all is quiet?
FWIW, NGC & PCGS have the Summer Palace Gate census up.
PCGS seems to be kinder in grading the antique silver?
The sold listings on eBay seem to indicate around 6 more sales of the medals in the last 2 weeks.


2015 Mountain Resort (Summer Palace Gate) Medal Grading (as of July 25, 2015)

I have tabulated the grading data referred to by NBM to allow easier visual interpretation leading to the following impressions:

1. Approximately 20% of the mintage have been graded so far by NGC and PCGS.

2. About 32% of the Silver Proof medals that have been graded scored PF70. This is already proportionately and numerically better than the Yuanmingyuan grading for the same proof silver medal. (YMY has only six PF70s out of a total of 274 graded so far).

3. Please note that the population of the Summer Palace Gate silver proof medals that has been graded so far may or may not be representative of the total silver proof medals. Dealers, sellers and enthusiasts may have cherry picked medals to send for grading at this early stage. However, this assertion could be inaccurate because other medal classes did not grade as well as the silver proof medal; so were they also cherry picked?!

4. You may have to send your silver proof medals to NGC for grading to improve your chances of getting a PF70 grade! This is scientific not just humor. With the number of PF69s and PF70s graded so far NGC is likely to be more confident grading this medal PF69/70 if their established criteria are met.

5. The PCGS grading profile for the Brass, Silver Matte and Brass Matte medals is better than that of NGC. I have heard it said before that PCGS is more confident and better skilled at grading exotic and expensive coins and medals compared to NGC. I don't know if this is what is at play here but there is a clear difference between the two grading companies here.

6. A total of 63 Silver Matte medals were graded PF64 by NGC! While accepting the competence and professionalism of NGC I must comment that this disproportionately poor grading by NGC does not make sense especially when compared to the grading profile for PCGS. I am not ordinarily an advocate of cracking out your coin and sending for regrading but the wide discrepancy here may be an argument for regrading these medals at PCGS.

7. Seems like you probably should send all non-silver proof Summer Palace Gate medals to PCGS for grading for a more favorable/?realistic grading outcome.

8. Finally, this preliminary grading profile of the Summer Palace Gate medal should assist with buying decisions online.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #276 on: July 25, 2015, 12:33:11 PM »
2 weeks and all is quiet?
FWIW, NGC & PCGS have the Summer Palace Gate census up.
PCGS seems to be kinder in grading the antique silver?
The sold listings on eBay seem to indicate around 6 more sales of the medals in the last 2 weeks.


I believe the eBay sales of this medal is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. First of all the non-silver proof medals sold out in China. Anything we see online now is likely to be a reseller item. I believe a significant proportion of the silver proof medals have also been sold in China. Silver medals that made it to the West have been mainly through private "help me out" deals in which people bought the medal at release or near release prices in China for enthusiasts out here. I am also aware of several non-publicized sales by both eBay and non-eBay resellers. Finally, about 20% of the mintage has already been graded by NGC and PCGS. From experience it is likely that double to triple this proportion of medal is still ungraded in private hands. The current characterization suggests that fewer Chinese grade their medals. Therefore fewer medals of the mintage are likely to be documented formally and commercial activity is not trackable for the rest. Remember that the majority of ALL the classical garden medals is still in China; this is where they were launched and still enjoy a lot of public support and interest. So eBay reseller numbers are not an accurate measure of the sales of the medal. IMHO!!!!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #277 on: October 13, 2015, 03:17:57 PM »
Has anyone source information on recent happenings in this medal series? I have come across information on the internet and forums regarding the next medal in the series and some unusual mintage plans. I'll tap my sources for more information later on.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline NBM

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 732
  • Karma: 31
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #278 on: October 13, 2015, 04:08:00 PM »
Has anyone source information on recent happenings in this medal series? I have come across information on the internet and forums regarding the next medal in the series and some unusual mintage plans. I'll tap my sources for more information later on.

So why no info or links?

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #279 on: October 13, 2015, 08:48:12 PM »
The new medal will be called the Ge Yuan (or YangZhuo) Garden medal or something to that nature. Ge Yuan garden is located in YangZhuo city in China.

Proposed mintages are as follows:

Gold 100g (10 pieces)
Silver 2oz (588 pieces)
Antique Silver 20z (299 pieces)
Brass (299 pieces)
Brass Matte (588 pieces) (Possibly another 10,000 pieces)
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
  • Karma: 172
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #280 on: October 13, 2015, 09:11:24 PM »
Here is the updated mintage info, including Geyuan.

Geyuan was an independent project by Shanghai Mint, aimed to be listed on a coin exchange. So the stained brass version is huge in number. On the other hand, the other versions are tiny in mintage, and will be distributed mainly by Shanghai Mint. Their availability is limited.

I am also showing the plaster models of Geyuan.

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
  • Karma: 172
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #281 on: October 13, 2015, 09:19:30 PM »
Steel dies of Geyuan

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #282 on: October 13, 2015, 10:11:35 PM »
The total mintage for the Geyuan (?Ge Yuan) Garden Medal series will be about 1778 compared to 2018 for the Mountain Resort (Summer Palace Gate) Medal series. Given how fast the Geyuan medal series burst unto the scene (without much pre-warning and marketing) the lower mintage could still be enough given the outpouring of other popular medal series this year. All are competing for our attention and pockets!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline Mirkkanen

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+48)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: 42
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #283 on: October 13, 2015, 10:53:45 PM »
It seems that, each year, the mintage goes down for the current year's medal. Is that an indication of poor sales and successively lower demand, or something else?

I bought the 2010 Yu yuan medal but have not purchased any since. The medal is beautiful, howevwr, I decided not to make a habit of paying big premiums for medals.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Karma: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Journey of the Chinese Classical Garden Series of Medals
« Reply #284 on: October 13, 2015, 11:08:06 PM »
At it's core the Geyuan Garden Medal seems to have been planned for listing on the Coin Exchange with other metal-type varieties being a "bonus" to collectors. As I understand it the extra 10,000 brass medals will only be minted if ongoing negotiations are successful. This will be a first time event in Chinese coin minting programs; minting a batch of coins or medals specifically for the coin exchanges. The implications and consequences on the medal series, especially the Brass denominated medals, is yet to be determined.

Whereas most other coins and medals that have been listed on the coin exchanges so far have been mainly a minority (<50%) of the total mintage (please correct me if I am wrong) the proposed 10,000 brass Geyuan medals meant for the exchanges dwarf the number of brass medals meant for individual collectors/investors (588 pieces). This means that price movements brought about by the coin exchange listed medals could tsunami prices of the medals in private hands. However, the real life results can only be ascertained upon release!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!