Author Topic: These coins will be authentic or false.  (Read 7185 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline anubis010

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
These coins will be authentic or false.
« on: November 10, 2014, 10:36:05 PM »
These coins will be authentic or false.

Offline RedBloodWay

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2014, 07:09:19 AM »
Very cool! My friend I am staying with right now could read this.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2685
  • Karma: 228
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 12:58:20 PM »
This coin was polished, most likely by a very fine particle sand paper or an eraser. There is no design issue, except all lines in the reverse are too thick vs. genuine and the wear pattern of three birds appears to be “not nature”. IMO, it is a questionable coin and ought to submit to PCGS to determine its authenticity.  If it is genuine, the coin can be graded as detail F.

Offline pitcoinchaser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: 6
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 01:42:09 PM »
Coin has been polished. If possible, please provide rim pictures. Some times polished coin will be given authenticity unverifiable for both PCGS and NGC since the altered surface issue. So in this case, rim photo will be much helpful. There is a very easy way (一眼法)to judge from those birds and I learned form my coin Master in China, I cannot tell you in detail but your coin is genuine.

Offline EU-HUN-BP

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 03:34:19 PM »
Here is my coin for example.  :(

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
  • Karma: 118
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 04:03:58 PM »
Try PCGS.  NGC is fine with modern Chinese coins and the common Junk dollars, but my few experiences (in 2011-2012) with Imperial had been poor.  See http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4270.0 
PCGS graded the same coins quickly: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3329.0

Offline EU-HUN-BP

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 04:37:37 PM »
Instructive story. Thanks for advice.
I paid Express tier too.  :001_smile:  Your coins are WOW! :thumbup:

Offline pitcoinchaser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: 6
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 04:58:46 PM »
PCGS is more professional for judging machine struck coins compared with NGC. NGC has many issues for the onsite grading in China recently. Many people complained about they reluctant to let the coin be holded even the coin is problem free while they still charge the grading fee. I highly recommend PCGS for grading machine struck coins, they are more professional, stable and they recently lower the price in China. If coin value is less than 6000 RMB (Approximately 900 USD), the grading fee is 125 RMB (Approximately 19 USD ). That's great deal!

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2685
  • Karma: 228
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 03:53:54 PM »
This coin was polished, most likely by a very fine particle sand paper or an eraser. There is no design issue, except all lines in the reverse are too thick vs. genuine and the wear pattern of three birds appears to be “not nature”. IMO, it is a questionable coin and ought to submit to PCGS to determine its authenticity.  If it is genuine, the coin can be graded as detail F.

Coin has been polished. If possible, please provide rim pictures. Some times polished coin will be given authenticity unverifiable for both PCGS and NGC since the altered surface issue. So in this case, rim photo will be much helpful. There is a very easy way (一眼法)to judge from those birds and I learned form my coin Master in China, I cannot tell you in detail but your coin is genuine.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your contribution.

We have agreed to most coins posted recently in this forum, in term of their authenticity, except this one. Please examine the attached enlarged section pictures of three birds. The first picture is from anubsi010, the second is NGC MS64, the third is PCGS XF40 and the fourth is PCGS AU details, smoothed surface. The relief of lower edge of the birds (red arrowed) of anubsi010’s coin can still clearly visible and better than MS64 coin, while XF40 and AU details have smooth edges. The two circled areas, IMO, were lumpy surface being smoothed by polishing. The porosity of the surface also suggests that this coin is highly questionable and is a high quality reproduction.

Offline pitcoinchaser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: 6
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 08:45:06 PM »
Hi poconopenn, thank you for your reply and very nice to be here. I have to say coins like this which has been severely polished is very hard to be judged. That's why many grading service will give authenticity unverifiable label. If coin has been polished or disposed by using chemical liquid, the surface may have problems like small cracks or even small holes. In some other cases, it may also form this lumpy surface for example, coin severe corrosion damage, when people try to use tool or chemical liquid to remove corrosion, it will have these lumpy surfaces. It is different than the lumpy surface in counterfeit coin which  made by foundry casting (翻砂). The hole are bigger than this. Since the hole is caused by bubbles, their shape and size will be irregular.

Also, the character and portrait will be smeared during polishing and sharp edges will also be blurred.Those will also add difficulty to judge whether the coin is genuine or not.

Back to this coin, one reason that I think the coin is genuine is because I see the secret mark (暗记) which appear in many Chinese coins. The aim of this secret mark is to avoid counterfeit. But, I have to admit nowadays, the replica technique improved a lot, so I hope the owner can share rim information to us so that we can further judge the coin.

Finally, I want to say please avoid purchasing this polished or alter surface coin as much as possible. They are not so worth to collect in my opinion.

Offline EU-HUN-BP

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2016, 07:30:32 AM »
Till now, Your only one serious argument is that "secret mark". Why don't tell us? Did You pay 10.000$ for that? We gathered here to share knowledge... Your attitude is strange.....

Offline pitcoinchaser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: 6
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 09:49:57 PM »
Hi, EU-HUN-BP. I guess you are not Chinese and that's why you don't understand that. If you don't understand, I will not explain. But one thing I can say is let's think about, if I post  where is the secret mark on the forum, every body will know it and so does the people who did reproduction coins. Hope you can understand. If you want to know, I can personally PM you.

Offline EU-HUN-BP

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 06:59:54 AM »
Dear Pitcoincheaser!
Understood!
My chinese coin master ,who living in Nanking already explained these "secret marks" with drawings.
I just thought,that You wants money for that. Similar to - mamma_ac - on Ebay ,who selling varitey guides for a few bucks.
Now I see,that is not true.
Otherwise,Your posts are very useful! Thank You for that,and welcome from Europe.

Br,

Tibor

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2685
  • Karma: 228
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2016, 02:14:29 PM »
One of the reason to make me to believe that this coin to be questionable is the "secret mark 工" which appears too visible in this coin to be considered as genuine mark. This so-called "secret mark" has been known for a long time and is no longer a secret for the counterfeiters.

Offline pitcoinchaser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: 6
Re: These coins will be authentic or false.
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2016, 12:38:01 AM »
No. I will not SELL ANY knowledge for money. That is unnecessary for me.