Author Topic: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin  (Read 7658 times)

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Offline Cornishfarmer

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Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« on: May 03, 2014, 12:35:56 PM »
Just received a coin from a reputable coin seller on eBay with a feed back of over 13000, it's a 2007 1 oz ms69 NCGS panda. So far I have counted over 60 spots on the coin with the naked eye, is this a record??!!! On a serious note I know they do get spots but it wasn't on the description that it had them, the photo wasn't of the actual coin. I did get it for £45 which is quite good, what should I do?
1 return the coin
2 keep the coin because it is still an 07 ms69
3 sell it on with an honest description
4 sell it to anyone that reads this for $300

Also bought a couple ms65 and ms66 they are marked like they look like they have condensation on, should I expect that on this grade coin

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 01:52:41 PM »
Return the coin.  For the others graded 65 or 66 haze and spots would be common place.

Offline digbird

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 02:09:34 PM »
 I'd return it then give the bloke a neutral or red blotch for lousy coin descriptions. This practice has to stop. We need all the honesty we can get in this hobby. Non-disclosure is deceptive.

This happened to me and that's what I did many years ago. Seller wrote to me that he was upset, I replied, probably not as much as me.

Offline NBM

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2014, 04:31:41 PM »
It is dishonest to sell a coin without disclosing it's glaring flaws, especially when they use a different picture.
Their feedback should describe this deceptive behavior.

Offline AllSong

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 04:34:09 PM »
A wild wild guess: Thelondoncoincompany?! 45£+15£?
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Offline AllSong

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2014, 04:35:08 PM »
Try to return it (it´s against their policies, since they don´t grade coins, PCGS does)  N26
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Offline Cornishfarmer

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2014, 04:46:07 PM »
A wild wild guess: Thelondoncoincompany?! 45£+15£?

You are right, had bit of a set to with them about the cost of additional shipping as well, but they are right they do display what they will charge, still came as a shock when it was added together

Offline AllSong

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2014, 04:52:58 PM »
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9886.0

I never got to give them some negative feedback  N24 I hesitated too much, which will never happen happen again! They truely are not honest and try to get rid of their poorly conserved coins  N32
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Offline Cornishfarmer

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 04:56:14 PM »
I am bit of a tool just read the listing and does say it has white spots. Know of and good honest ebay/web site sellers.

Offline wg

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 03:08:35 AM »
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9886.0

I never got to give them some negative feedback  N24 I hesitated too much, which will never happen happen again! They truely are not honest and try to get rid of their poorly conserved coins  N32

this seller still owes me money.

 N26

Offline NBM

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Re: The London Coin Company is a Dishonest Fraud?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 07:18:26 AM »
Title changed so search engines can pick it up.

This account?

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=thelondoncoincompany

Unhidden eBay feedback:

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=+thelondoncoincompany+&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home

Is this the same crook?

Quote
The London Coin Company Limited & eBay Copyright Theft
Alter ego of Ingram Liberman
Ingram Liberman used to list coins on eBay as ingramliberman, but appears to have changed his eBay user name to thelondoncoincompany, although there is also another eBay user registered as londoncoincompany, perhaps a spare?

http://taxfreegold.co.uk/thelondoncoincompanylimited.html

Quote
This particular eBay seller has as many IDs as Carlos the Jackal, including the grandly titled and important sounding "THE LONDON COIN COMPANY LTD" (thelondoncoincompany), with websites: www.GoldProof.co.uk, www.SilverProof.co.uk, www.CoinCollectables.co.uk; there may be more names out there...

Quote
thelondoncoincompany The London Coin Company Selling Replica Sovereigns on eBay as Restrikes

http://taxfreegold.co.uk/thelondoncoincompany.html

Mr. Ingram Liberman

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Ingram-Liberman/1504529550

https://plus.google.com/113566715447108480723/about

PCGS quotes him in articles?

http://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-paris-grades-2014-2-britannia-lunar-mule-varieties

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 09:05:44 AM »
I really don't know what is so hard about ,you sell a coin to your customer he does not like it you take it back ,in the case of graded coins ,you take as good of photo,s as you can ,provide cert #,s and then still if a customer does not like it ,you take it back........... it seems if you know a coin has a problem you let the buyer know and you prevent hassles upfront, the only caveat  for buyers is if you have an inexpensive graded coin for example a 2007 panda and it is graded ms67 or 68 and sells for 60/70 usd ,it is graded that way for a reason:) if it is a 69 or 70 and it has spots the seller  should let the buyer know upfront and avoid hassles, every once in a while 1 can get by someone so you make the buyer happy and it is all good . This is why I try to stay away from pcgs graded coins ! they will grade spotted coins 69 and 70 ......NGC on the other hand no way ,no how! they pick up on it no matter how slight ,they do not want to pay on their guarantee:) if a coin has a slight shadow ,spot, haze etc, no matter how small it is not getting a 69 or better grade no matter how pretty the coin is. I can show you 1996 small date panda,s that you need 5x lighted magnification and you need to really ,really look for a shadow all received ms68  these are beautiful coins 8 out of 10 people would not even spot these very slight imperfection .ngc did:) NGC is looking for this with the right lighting and it is an automatic downgrade IMHO, it is their top priority when grading MCC, if a coin graded by ngc  a 69 or better and it has been graded in the last 2 years ,if it has spots it developed them after grading IMHO
001   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 69      
002   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 69      
003   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 68      
004   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 68      
005   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 68      
006   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 68      
007   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 68      
008   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 69      
009   1996   CHINA   PANDA SMALL DATE   S10Y    MS 68      

Offline GDG's

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2014, 10:30:48 AM »
I would like to thank everyone who contributed posts to this thread.

I for one will never bid on another MCC from the londoncoincompany. I'll bet he just begins selling under a different name and ebay will allow it. I've contacted ebay before about dishonest sellers on ebay and NOTHING happened. If a seller makes money for ebay they seem to look the other way. Disappointing, especially to a novice collector who just may walk away forever. This forum is a great place for novice collectors. Perhaps a thread needs to be started for trustworthy sellers so newer guys/gals know who they can safely buy from. We have numerous quality sellers who post right here.

I also agree with jc888888888 that MCC sellers are better off offering a no quibble 14 day refund policy. I've bought dozens of coins from certain sellers who post on this forum. NEVER had to send a single coin back because they were HONEST but know if I wanted to send one back they would take it back. EVERYONE should boycott the dishonest sellers.

Offline AllSong

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 04:18:00 PM »
I have mentioned "The London Coin Company" in two precious posts. Here is a quote from an email from him/them.
Quote
Quote
"Hi You have received a PR69 DCAM as designated by PCGS which is what you have received. If they are saying the coin is a PR69 DCAM this is what it is sold as and what you bid on. If you are now saying you do not want the coin please send the coin back and we will refund the price of the item as near enough every coin you have purchased from us you seem to have an issue with and think its better for both of us to send the coin back and refrain from bidding for the future as we do not grade the coins PCGS does and think you should take these issues up with them as we are honest sellers and go based on PCGS designations and if they make a mistake or feel a coin is worthy of a PR designation then we accept what they do as they are the professional Grading company not you or us. With best wishes The London Coin Company"

Taken from here http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=1115.1035
& the reason I started the following thread http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9886.0
"Boards don´t hit back!"

Offline thelondoncoincompany

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Re: Do I have the Record for most milk spots on ms69 coin
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2014, 02:55:26 PM »
As mentioned to this buyer who no one would want as a customer, every coin this buyer bought from us he complained about silly things sniffing for something for nothing and we had said if unhappy please send the coin back and we would refund the price and to take his business elsewhere as we only deal with buyers who are reasonable and not ones you know you can never make happy and want something for nothing which this buyer clearly was.
Interesting how his side of the story is very one sided.
As we are an authorised dealer for PCGS in the UK we grade 1,000s of coins at a time and use stock photos and if a coin has spots it will mention this in the description to make buyers aware of this and we did not sell the coin as an error it was started at £0.01p with a clear picture of the which PCGS has designated as PR69 and if a buyer is unhappy with a PCGS Grade or Prefix they should contact PCGS directly as we base our information on what they provide.

Also for the company saying unreasonable things about us, this company says the same about all coin dealers in the UK and would recommend reading this article and making your own judgement who was also kicked out of the BNTA and Royal Mint refusing to do business with them.

http://lawrencechardexposed.com/

We are International specialists in PCGS Graded coins and as long as buyers are reasonable we will also be.

The London Coin Company