Author Topic: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D  (Read 10038 times)

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Offline geoxxx

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Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« on: May 01, 2014, 07:16:31 AM »
Anyone been following the evolution of the Silver 2001 Small D coins S10Y ?
Population and price trend ?


Offline pandamonium

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 06:15:40 PM »
Here is a Mint Error 2001 Small D MS 69  $2,588     Ebay 261524232433.....

Offline geoxxx

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 02:48:55 AM »
Here is a Mint Error 2001 Small D MS 69  $2,588     Ebay 261524232433.....

Yes,
It is a nice one.
But I am unfamiliar with mint errors

Offline NBM

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 02:20:49 PM »
Is this a lint mark?

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2014, 08:55:22 AM »
Yes,
It is a nice one.
But I am unfamiliar with mint errors

I have seen this coin in person and will see it again in Chicago on Tuesday as I asked the dealer to bring it. There is a strike through mark on the pagoda. I don't think it is worth the asking price though.

Offline NBM

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2014, 03:09:34 PM »
I see Total Graded is now 132 (111-MS69, 19-MS70) with a large submission of close to 30 coins (3974824-001 - 3974824-028).
I have not been following, is this new?

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2014, 07:37:33 PM »
yes there was an additional 5 to 8 sheets 10ct found in Beijing tucked away somewhere some of these that large submission to NGC and a group similar to PCGS  .IMHO it is still a pretty hard to come by coin MANY people have been and are still looking and when you look at the total population it is still pretty small ......I don't know the PCGS population ,I do know the NGC population is 3 less as I personally crossed 3 NGC ms69 coins to pcgs for customers who wanted PCGS coins

Offline NBM

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2014, 07:49:27 PM »
Thanks JC, has the mint or reasons for minting ever been identified?

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2014, 08:01:46 PM »
Not that I know of ...........   I sure would love to know:)  I just looked up the pop of PCGS coins it is 69 so still low number and I would hazard a guess that 80 to 90% of the coins discovered have been graded ..........

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2015, 08:02:44 AM »
Just a thought ......... it looks like a total population of less than 200 coins graded by both NGC and PCGS .....most of the recent pcgs coins where submitted in China to PCGS by the fellow that found a hoard of apx 60 to 80 coins recently(this is just a guesstimate:) ..they have been sold on Ebay and the majority on Taobao along with the NGC graded coins as the coin is bringing much stronger money in China..to speak to current value I just sold an NGC graded ms69 on ebay at auction for 798+ shipping (to a Chinese buyer in mainland China) a week or so ago . Current coin prices and lack of activity have driven all MCC down a bit .I still honestly believe though the 2001 small d panda is the rarest panda in the silver series , scarcer  than the serif ,mirror ,micro,early date proofs etc, I base my belief simply upon this:The world has been searched looking for these coins and basically only 2 finds have come up ..when the coin originally was discovered apx 4 years ago or so ??  I was one of the lucky recipients of some of these I would guesstimate apx 8 sheets where sold intact before they where discovered by NGC  ..and there was probably 20 or 30 loose coins sold before the discovery ...fast forward a couple of years another 6 to 8 sheets discovered in China by 1 person who quietly graded them both @ NGC and PCGS and sold them slowly on auction sites thru dealers and on his own my understanding those coins but a very few that are left have been sold to collectors. I know of a no more of a thorough search conducted for a coin by dealers in China then the one for the 2001 small D :). And I do believe the vast majority of the population has been graded ,I have not seen a single coin in OMP offered for sale since shortly after the initial discovery .So so far we are talking about a population of apx 200 coins :) Can more be found ??  are there more out there ??  of course that is a possibility :) but there is two facts that are hard to ignore essentially  all of the discovered coins have been found in China and Chinese dealers have been actively looking for years for more. And Panda aficionados the world over know and are looking all over too........still 200 coins:) I rest my case for the 2001 small d..............       

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 10:33:30 AM »
Just a thought ......... it looks like a total population of less than 200 coins graded by both NGC and PCGS .....most of the recent pcgs coins where submitted in China to PCGS by the fellow that found a hoard of apx 60 to 80 coins recently(this is just a guesstimate:) ..they have been sold on Ebay and the majority on Taobao along with the NGC graded coins as the coin is bringing much stronger money in China..to speak to current value I just sold an NGC graded ms69 on ebay at auction for 798+ shipping (to a Chinese buyer in mainland China) a week or so ago . Current coin prices and lack of activity have driven all MCC down a bit .I still honestly believe though the 2001 small d panda is the rarest panda in the silver series , scarcer  than the serif ,mirror ,micro,early date proofs etc, I base my belief simply upon this:The world has been searched looking for these coins and basically only 2 finds have come up ..when the coin originally was discovered apx 4 years ago or so ??  I was one of the lucky recipients of some of these I would guesstimate apx 8 sheets where sold intact before they where discovered by NGC  ..and there was probably 20 or 30 loose coins sold before the discovery ...fast forward a couple of years another 6 to 8 sheets discovered in China by 1 person who quietly graded them both @ NGC and PCGS and sold them slowly on auction sites thru dealers and on his own my understanding those coins but a very few that are left have been sold to collectors. I know of a no more of a thorough search conducted for a coin by dealers in China then the one for the 2001 small D :). And I do believe the vast majority of the population has been graded ,I have not seen a single coin in OMP offered for sale since shortly after the initial discovery .So so far we are talking about a population of apx 200 coins :) Can more be found ??  are there more out there ??  of course that is a possibility :) but there is two facts that are hard to ignore essentially  all of the discovered coins have been found in China and Chinese dealers have been actively looking for years for more. And Panda aficionados the world over know and are looking all over too........still 200 coins:) I rest my case for the 2001 small d..............       

At first my desire to obtain a 2001 small d was very high but has since subsided.  This is a result of a few factors.  First, the asking price became crazy.  Ideally I wanted a MS70 version of it but the asking price was over $5k for the couple of sellers who have them on eBay.  The one I saw that sold auction style went for half that price.  The buy-it-now ones will not move at that price.

2nd, i have been fortunate to attend a few shows in 2014 and have spoken to several panda dealers about it.  There is one dealer, I don't recall his name, he is a partner with Arif; he has an amazing silver panda collection. He is not a fan of them, he believes marks can be easily faked, and does not feel that the coin's price is worth its value.  I know when I should value someone's opinion who is more of an expert on a subject that myself, so I tend to believe him.  I think they are grossly overvalued.  Still desirable, but overvalued. 

I will also no longer purchase shanghai expo medals; these are not official china mint coins and are not worth their price; especially the gold ones.  Outrageously priced.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 11:03:30 AM »
2nd, i have been fortunate to attend a few shows in 2014 and have spoken to several panda dealers about it.  There is one dealer, I don't recall his name, he is a partner with Arif; he has an amazing silver panda collection. He is not a fan of them, he believes marks can be easily faked, and does not feel that the coin's price is worth its value.  I know when I should value someone's opinion who is more of an expert on a subject that myself, so I tend to believe him.  I think they are grossly overvalued.  Still desirable, but overvalued. 

Everyone is in titled to their opinion and I imagine  they can be faked BUT ,I personally  rely on NGC or pcgs expertise ... i have a pretty good knowledge of where all these coins have come from  and if there where fakes there would be a lot more coins for sale:), currently and like I said I know who discovered the coins who bought them all when they where initially discovered  as i was lucky enough to get some in the initial discovery ........the second discovery about a year ago in Beijing I know the people involved in that too............  since this coin was discovered I have kept tabs  95% of the PCGS coins are from the second discovery look at the sequential cert#,s on e bay:)  also almost all sellers on ebay and graded coins for sale that I have seen since the discovery I personally know for a fact that the folks selling them are tied to either the 1st or second discovery or both:)  I am not going to assume I know the value of what these coins should be ,but as far as rarity goes so far as I see it is at least as rare as any of the panda silver key dates   someone blurts out "oh they can be faked ":) and dismisses the coin sounds like a little bit of sour grapes IMHO    all coins can be faked!  at any given moment there are 5 times the amount of mirror and micro panda,s for sale than that pesky small D ..............facts are stubborn

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 11:10:06 AM »
2nd, i have been fortunate to attend a few shows in 2014 and have spoken to several panda dealers about it.  There is one dealer, I don't recall his name, he is a partner with Arif; he has an amazing silver panda collection. He is not a fan of them, he believes marks can be easily faked, and does not feel that the coin's price is worth its value.  I know when I should value someone's opinion who is more of an expert on a subject that myself, so I tend to believe him.  I think they are grossly overvalued.  Still desirable, but overvalued. 

Everyone is in titled to their opinion and I imagine  they can be faked BUT ,I personally  rely on NGC or pcgs expertise ... i have a pretty good knowledge of where all these coins have come from  and if there where fakes there would be a lot more coins for sale:), currently and like I said I know who discovered the coins who bought them all when they where initially discovered  as i was lucky enough to get some in the initial discovery ........the second discovery about a year ago in Beijing I know the people involved in that too............  since this coin was discovered I have kept tabs  95% of the PCGS coins are from the second discovery look at the sequential cert#,s on e bay:)  also almost all sellers on ebay and graded coins for sale that I have seen since the discovery I personally know for a fact that the folks selling them are tied to either the 1st or second discovery or both:)  I am not going to assume I know the value of what these coins should be ,but as far as rarity goes so far as I see it is at least as rare as any of the panda silver key dates   someone blurts out "oh they can be faked ":) and dismisses the coin sounds like a little bit of sour grapes IMHO    all coins can be faked!  at any given moment there are 5 times the amount of mirror and micro panda,s for sale than that pesky small D ..............facts are stubborn

Like you said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I'm not dismissing the coin at all.  I said it is still desirable but overvalued. Yes you are right about any coin being faked; that is not really the issue here, i didn't intend to cloud my point of view with that. I value your opinion as well; i have bought a great deal of coins from you in the past as well. No sour grapes here.

Offline geoxxx

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2015, 12:26:18 PM »
Which silver coin is rarer,
Panda 2001 small D ms69
or
Panda 2000 mirror ms69 ?

Offline Butch

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Re: Silver Panda 2001D SMALL D
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2015, 01:00:33 PM »
Which silver coin is rarer,
Panda 2001 small D ms69
or
Panda 2000 mirror ms69 ?

2001 small D MS69.

285 2000 mirror pandas graded MS69 by NGC and 112 2001 small D pandas graded MS69 by NGC.  29 2000 mirror pandas graded MS69 by PCGS and 52 2001 small D pandas graded MS69 by PCGS.

Altogether, 314 2000 mirror MS69s and 164 2001 small D MS69s.