Author Topic: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)  (Read 22082 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Karma: 82
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2014, 12:42:24 PM »
Arif said Tiger was PF69 before NCS.  After NCS, it got PF70 even red spot is still there.

I'm not the customer service rep for NGC. I have been told that the policy there is that a coin with a red spot won't receive a 70. If there are photos that show a red spot on a newly graded 70 coin than that is something that I would suggest you contact the company about to resolve.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2687
  • Karma: 229
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2014, 12:53:45 PM »


Based on recent results of Stacks Bowers auction at H.K. in April, 2014, NGC graded MCC has about 10% premium over PCGS, while PCGS fetches more than 10% premium over NGC for Imperial and Republic coins.

Buy the coin, not the holder.

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2014, 02:11:09 PM »
Dear Contrapunctus,

I think my post made plain that I respect your right to your opinion as well as your right to express it. The story that followed didn't name the companies involved. That was a deliberate choice so it would not be seen as pro or anti any specific company. It is also neither pro nor anti any particular person, including you. That was not the point of it.  It's unclear to me why you would take the story as an effort to suppress your opinions. If you do think so, rest assured it is not.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Peter, if you know you're stating facts, you wouldn't use pseudonyms like "company A" and "company B".

Legally speaking, if you're stating facts with evidence, you can safely use the actual company names.

I was not referring to myself in the analogy; I was saying even a partner of a company has the right to patronize its rival company. There is absolutely nothing wrong.

Offline PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Karma: 82
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2014, 03:33:49 PM »
Dear Contrapunctus,

This is not a legal forum. The names of the companies involved would distract from the point I made, or attempted to make, which has nothing to do with the companies. It was the submitter's behavior that interested me.

"I was saying even a partner of a company has the right to patronize its rival company. There is absolutely nothing wrong." From a business relationship standpoint my guess is that most people see two-timing your partner as a problem even if it's not illegal. YMMV.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

P.S. Stating the companies' names would help identify the submitter. I wish to keep him anonymous.

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2014, 03:55:57 AM »
Dear Contrapunctus,

This is not a legal forum. The names of the companies involved would distract from the point I made, or attempted to make, which has nothing to do with the companies. It was the submitter's behavior that interested me.

"I was saying even a partner of a company has the right to patronize its rival company. There is absolutely nothing wrong." From a business relationship standpoint my guess is that most people see two-timing your partner as a problem even if it's not illegal. YMMV.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

P.S. Stating the companies' names would help identify the submitter. I wish to keep him anonymous.

Yes, I know this is not a legal forum. But I was pointing out to you, there is nothing wrong with a business partner patronizing his rival company and making his dissatisfaction known if he was dissatisfied with the rival company's service. You may see it as two-timing but it is entirely your opinion.

You must learn to differentiate opinions from facts.

Back to your story from your point of view, you wrote "he found a handful with questionable grades". Why are there slabs with "questionable grades"? Details? Are those slabs having similar problems as musemellow's?

Offline Vredaren

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Karma: 7
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2014, 04:12:25 AM »
An interesting story, Peter, thank you for sharing. I think most people realised that you kept the name of the submitter out of the story for respect of that person, and that you avoided naming the companies so that it wouldn't turn into a big "PCGS vs NGC vc X"-debate.

I am a junior collector but even I realise that while we do expect perfection there is _always_ room for error and that won't ever change. That's why it's great that you can simply contact the company which graded your coins and almost always get help with an incorrect grade or a damaged slab etc. Of course there are horror stories like this one that sparked this debate but those are very few and far in between. Just consider how many coins are submitted and graded...

Also I'd imagine that in Peter's story the errors were mostly incorrect grades more than anything and not mishandling.

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2014, 04:39:07 AM »
Also I'd imagine that in Peter's story the errors were mostly incorrect grades more than anything and not mishandling.

If a Naughty Greedy Company is so excellent, why would there be incorrect grades?

I heard there are 2 or 3 graders handling and grading every coin and after slabbed, a "world class grader" would conduct a final inspection on the slab. For those slabs with "questionable grade", is Peter trying to tell me all the 3 graders and the "world class grader" failed to grade correctly?

1 person may make a mistake but when there are 3 more persons examining and inspecting the first person's work, how is it possible all 4 persons failed at the same time? I find it totally unacceptable and I'm not sending coins to that company ever.

Offline PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2585
  • Karma: 82
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2014, 12:36:20 PM »
I have been fortunate enough to work for both NGC and PCGS. I know many of the graders, executives and employees at both companies. I respect the staff at both places. As a collector I’ve also had coins graded by both companies. In my experience no grading process that depends on humans is infallible and no process that depends on machines works at all. If you look hard enough and know what to look for there are always coins that might go up or down in grade if they are resubmitted. One of the best qualities of both companies is that they will work with submitters to resolve problems and misunderstandings.

There are meaningful differences between the two companies and it is certainly fair to prefer one more than the other (I do).  In my opinion what is not fair is to claim that one company is perfect and the other is terrible – this is simply not the case.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline snowball

  • 猫迷
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+28)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
  • Karma: 42
  • Gender: Male
    • China Mint
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2014, 12:49:14 PM »
In my experience no grading process that depends on humans is infallible and no process that depends on machines works at all. If you look hard enough and know what to look for there are always coins that might go up or down in grade if they are resubmitted. One of the best qualities of both companies is that they will work with submitters to resolve problems and misunderstandings.

There are meaningful differences between the two companies and it is certainly fair to prefer one more than the other (I do).  In my opinion what is not fair is to claim that one company is perfect and the other is terrible – this is simply not the case.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com



Well said, Peter!  N31


best,


snowball
Happy Collecting!  快乐收藏!

Colin
CE Collection Inc.
China Mint | Online Store

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2014, 01:10:44 PM »
I have been fortunate enough to work for both NGC and PCGS. I know many of the graders, executives and employees at both companies. I respect the staff at both places. As a collector I’ve also had coins graded by both companies. In my experience no grading process that depends on humans is infallible and no process that depends on machines works at all. If you look hard enough and know what to look for there are always coins that might go up or down in grade if they are resubmitted. One of the best qualities of both companies is that they will work with submitters to resolve problems and misunderstandings.

There are meaningful differences between the two companies and it is certainly fair to prefer one more than the other (I do).  In my opinion what is not fair is to claim that one company is perfect and the other is terrible – this is simply not the case.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

It is not claimed by dissatisfied customers without reason or rhyme. There is no smoke without fire.

True that no human is infallible but 4 experts failing at the same time for so many incidents just spelt "terrible".

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re:
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2014, 06:22:39 AM »
I started a new thread because I want nothing to do with the " nightmare " thread. This is just a report to the forum members on my results when trying the new NGC 70's cross over rules. I submitted 9 coins for cross over. 7 were 70s 2 were 69s. I own 6 of these coins and I submitted 3 for a Chinese Dealer who is also a good friend. I mention this just to show that the coins came from different areas and grading periods at PCGS. None of them passed. I am disappointed but it isn't the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. I would have thought the number of 70s submitted would have yielded at least 1 or 2 70s. I would be interested in hearing from others on the forum if they have tried to cross over from PCGS 70s to NGC.

Russ

As some members have pointed out in another thread, "company P" and "company N" are rivals. :ohmy: :sneaky2:

If you're "company N" receiving the coins for crossovers, would you agree with your rival's gradings? If I'm "company N", I would grade them all down to 68 to show that my rival's grading skills is flawed and to punish the collector for not choosing my company for grading in the first place. :mad:

From the start, the idea of crossover is bad idea for any collector. Didn't you hear alarm bells ringing? N12

If you're a perfectionist insisting on uniform slabs for all coins in your collection, you need plenty of blessings and luck. Thank god I'm not such a perfectionist. If ever any of your 70 coin crossovered successfully as a 70, please also buy a lottery ticket. Haha, just joking. N16

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2014, 11:37:12 AM »
Strange, why is my reply to Russ in this thread?

Offline Mirkkanen

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+48)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1391
  • Karma: 43
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2014, 02:17:14 PM »
I assume it was moved b/c a mod/admin felt it was more appropriate in this thread.

Offline Contrapunctus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Karma: -42
Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2014, 08:00:00 PM »
I assume it was moved b/c a mod/admin felt it was more appropriate in this thread.

Thanks anyway for your private message the other time. I can feel it was full of care and concern for me.