Author Topic: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)  (Read 22694 times)

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Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2014, 01:06:21 AM »
I'm done sending coins to ncs/Ngc they totally screwed us by jacking up the price to $50 for coins under the $300 mark, which i wouldn't have know about if it wasn't for this forum
They didn't send any emails post anything about this before the 15th, which is bs
I got my coins there by the 15th it took 2 months to grade and luckily I must've wrote my cc exp date wrong because I gotta email saying the almost $400 payment for 6 1/20ths didn't go thru, I told them my submission papers said it was only $25(or $27) per coin, I was ready to flip out but the lady at the billing dept was too nice and changed from $50 to $25
I got decent grades but from now on I'll buy them already graded
It's just not worth it to pay $50 to put a 1/20 coin thru ncs/Ngc, I'd be screwed if it'd come back as a 68 or lower
It's just a major bummer they would do this to the people who can't afford $300+ gold coins
It was fun to buy a coin and send it in and wait to see if you get a good grade, but I guess that funs over
I know they were very backed up with submissions, so maybe that's why the errors/problems happend with MM's coins


Yes, NEVER send any coins/medals for grading. Only buy already graded coins/medals.

Really no point to put up with bad service.

Offline brewcity

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2014, 05:31:05 PM »
I have acknowledged previously that I don't deal in huge volumes, but I haven't had any issues with slab quality or damage on any of the coins I have submitted to NGC. I feel the grades received were fair - sometimes disappointing (we always want a 70), but fair.

I would have no issues referring someone to NGC for coin grading.

Contrapunctus - I am sensing a theme in your posts. Are you part owner of PCGS?

Offline Pandagongzi

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2014, 07:18:27 PM »
If you are talking about the piefort coin, it went from a lead color to silver.  As for the tiger the photo was taken under different light, but the coin looked identical in tone and color before and after, only the toning spot become a little lighter. 
Tiger is PF70 with red spot?  This perfectly demonstrated NGC/NCS has bias towards big dealer.

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2014, 07:42:54 PM »
Tiger is PF70 with red spot?  This perfectly demonstrated NGC/NCS has bias towards big dealer.

A red spot disqualifies a coin from a PF-70- grade but one can develop after a coin has been graded and slabbed.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2014, 07:50:13 PM »
I don’t know Contrapunctus and I have no idea what motivates his posts but I do think he has a right to express his opinions here. That said, here’s a recent story from China to illustrate how difficult it can be to discern the real story from the public one.

As most CCF readers know there are a several grading companies that do business within China these days. The field is quite competitive. It happens that one company (company A) held a grading “event” that attracted a lot of submissions. Among them was a very large group of coins from somebody who is closely associated with a rival company (company B). Why would this person submit his coins to a competitor? Because Company A’s coins sell for more in China than Company B's and the submitter would have missed out on some profits if his coins were slabbed through his own partner.

What is really interesting, though, is what the submitter did next.  Out of his thousands of newly graded coins he found a handful with questionable grades. He then very publicly cracked the coins out of their holders and demonstrated the so-called mistakes.

Why would he do this? Because the submitter anticipated criticism from his business partners when they learned that he used the rival grading service. By publicly bashing Company A’s quality he deflected that criticism in advance while getting almost all of his coins in the more valuable slab.

I have to admit that when I realized what had taken place the submitter earned my admiration for his cunning. It was an ingenious way to have your cake and eat it, too. But it was an outstanding illustration of how reality and appearances often diverge and we should not always take what we see and read at face value.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline brewcity

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2014, 08:21:05 PM »
Peter: What an incredible story! I read it a couple of times just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Thank you for sharing.

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2014, 04:24:49 AM »
I have acknowledged previously that I don't deal in huge volumes, but I haven't had any issues with slab quality or damage on any of the coins I have submitted to NGC. I feel the grades received were fair - sometimes disappointing (we always want a 70), but fair.

I would have no issues referring someone to NGC for coin grading.

Contrapunctus - I am sensing a theme in your posts. Are you part owner of PCGS?

I'm neither affiliated nor against any company or person.


I don’t know Contrapunctus and I have no idea what motivates his posts but I do think he has a right to express his opinions here. That said, here’s a recent story from China to illustrate how difficult it can be to discern the real story from the public one.

As most CCF readers know there are a several grading companies that do business within China these days. The field is quite competitive. It happens that one company (company A) held a grading “event” that attracted a lot of submissions. Among them was a very large group of coins from somebody who is closely associated with a rival company (company B). Why would this person submit his coins to a competitor? Because Company A’s coins sell for more in China than Company B's and the submitter would have missed out on some profits if his coins were slabbed through his own partner.

What is really interesting, though, is what the submitter did next.  Out of his thousands of newly graded coins he found a handful with questionable grades. He then very publicly cracked the coins out of their holders and demonstrated the so-called mistakes.

Why would he do this? Because the submitter anticipated criticism from his business partners when they learned that he used the rival grading service. By publicly bashing Company A’s quality he deflected that criticism in advance while getting almost all of his coins in the more valuable slab.

I have to admit that when I realized what had taken place the submitter earned my admiration for his cunning. It was an ingenious way to have your cake and eat it, too. But it was an outstanding illustration of how reality and appearances often diverge and we should not always take what we see and read at face value.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Peter, you're thinking too much. You're not dealing with facts anymore. I don't know you and I'm neither a partner with any dealer or grading companies. I'm just an individual commoner collector out on the streets. Are you going to suspect every dissatisfied customer like me, Dr650rob or even musemellow to be a partner of a "rival company"?

Legally speaking, even the wife of Harland Sanders has a right to step into a McDonalds restaurant and expect to be served well like any customer. And if she wasn't served well, she has every right to make her dissatisfaction known.

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2014, 04:55:14 AM »
Because Company A’s coins sell for more in China than Company B's and the submitter would have missed out on some profits if his coins were slabbed through his own partner.

Opinions, views, comments, personal preferences...

I've a whole thread here that prefers PCGS but it didn't mean anything because it's individual preference.

http://www.cointalk.com/threads/pcgs-vs-ngc.192461/



PS: Sssshh... personally, I prefer PCGS's clear plastic slab.

Offline brewcity

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2014, 08:54:09 AM »
I read the thread you shared, and while this particular thread leans PCGS, it's not the "whole thread here that prefers PCGS." While I have no data to back me up, I suspect the collecting community is probably fairly evenly split between the two camps (for those who are absolutely committed to one grading service). However large those camps may be, there's likely a camp that's larger than either of them who don't care which of the two slabs they receive (switch hitters, if you will). After all, as it was mentioned in the thread you shared, it's first and foremost about the coin.

The slab and grading (for me) is more about preserving the coin and reassurance that I can sell a coin for about what I paid for it (assuming I don't "reach" to get a particular coin) - that is, the buyer and seller view the coin as being the same grade (and roughly equivalent value, or the transaction doesn't transpire). That said, being a perfectionist, if I have a set I am attempting to assemble, I will always preferentially collect a single set of holders (without overpaying to do so). I find a complete set more appealing and impressive if the holders and matching (including all white edge view vs. old NGC holders vs. black edge view).

Like you said, it's all a matter of opinion/preference.

Offline Pandagongzi

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2014, 10:18:58 AM »
A red spot disqualifies a coin from a PF-70- grade but one can develop after a coin has been graded and slabbed.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Arif said Tiger was PF69 before NCS.  After NCS, it got PF70 even red spot is still there.

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2014, 10:52:29 AM »
I read the thread you shared, and while this particular thread leans PCGS, it's not the "whole thread here that prefers PCGS." While I have no data to back me up, I suspect the collecting community is probably fairly evenly split between the two camps (for those who are absolutely committed to one grading service). However large those camps may be, there's likely a camp that's larger than either of them who don't care which of the two slabs they receive (switch hitters, if you will). After all, as it was mentioned in the thread you shared, it's first and foremost about the coin.

The slab and grading (for me) is more about preserving the coin and reassurance that I can sell a coin for about what I paid for it (assuming I don't "reach" to get a particular coin) - that is, the buyer and seller view the coin as being the same grade (and roughly equivalent value, or the transaction doesn't transpire). That said, being a perfectionist, if I have a set I am attempting to assemble, I will always preferentially collect a single set of holders (without overpaying to do so). I find a complete set more appealing and impressive if the holders and matching (including all white edge view vs. old NGC holders vs. black edge view).

Like you said, it's all a matter of opinion/preference.

Unlike you and some other people, I buy a graded coin for the coin itself. I don't care whether it is NGC or PCGS slab. Either one is fine.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2014, 10:57:26 AM »
I read the thread you shared, and while this particular thread leans PCGS, it's not the "whole thread here that prefers PCGS." While I have no data to back me up, I suspect the collecting community is probably fairly evenly split between the two camps (for those who are absolutely committed to one grading service). However large those camps may be, there's likely a camp that's larger than either of them who don't care which of the two slabs they receive (switch hitters, if you will). After all, as it was mentioned in the thread you shared, it's first and foremost about the coin.

CCF also conducted our own survey of PCGS/NGC/OMP.  At this point NGC is the clear winner.
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3689.0

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2014, 11:14:10 AM »
CCF also conducted our own survey of PCGS/NGC/OMP.  At this point NGC is the clear winner.
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3689.0

Total Voters: 74

A census of sample size 74 voters is a joke unless you conducted a census of an entire country, say China or US.

Offline jc888888888

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2014, 11:24:04 AM »
CCF also conducted our own survey of PCGS/NGC/OMP.  At this point NGC is the clear winner.
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3689.0

+1 Sandac, Perception is reality ,and reality is $$$$$ ,perceived or real you can pick which one you like the most ,MCC in both China and in USA consistently sell for more money in NGC holder's over PCGS holder's  , there simply just more collector's who have started there collection in NGC holder's and want to continue #2 pcgs in an attempt to gain market share has a perception in the marketplace as being much more liberal with higher grades when it comes to MCC  and there is a lot of basis of fact in this regard IMHO (look at the 2001d small d as a glaring example) thus making a PCGS coin of the same grade less desirable  .I am not always a cheerleader of NGC , I have graded a fairly substantial amount of coins at NGC and like anyone I am not always in agreement with the grading results but all in all the proof is in the fact that I keep sending them coins to grade ,and when I have had a problem with NGC they have always done their best to fix it for me.

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: NGC grading Nightmare!!! (Warning: Panda abuse)
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2014, 12:34:09 PM »
I'm neither affiliated nor against any company or person.


Peter, you're thinking too much. You're not dealing with facts anymore. I don't know you and I'm neither a partner with any dealer or grading companies. I'm just an individual commoner collector out on the streets. Are you going to suspect every dissatisfied customer like me, Dr650rob or even musemellow to be a partner of a "rival company"?

Legally speaking, even the wife of Harland Sanders has a right to step into a McDonalds restaurant and expect to be served well like any customer. And if she wasn't served well, she has every right to make her dissatisfaction known.

Dear Contrapunctus,

I think my post made plain that I respect your right to your opinion as well as your right to express it. The story that followed didn't name the companies involved. That was a deliberate choice so it would not be seen as pro or anti any specific company. It is also neither pro nor anti any particular person, including you. That was not the point of it.  It's unclear to me why you would take the story as an effort to suppress your opinions. If you do think so, rest assured it is not.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com