Author Topic: Silver and Gold  (Read 4354 times)

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Offline cloudtoground

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Silver and Gold
« on: February 17, 2014, 07:22:53 PM »
Hello, I was just wondering how many of you got sick of all the white and dark spotting on silver coins and decided to buy only gold coins instead?  Anyone feel that way? I only have a couple gold coins but those two coins don't have any problems.  Do gold coins have a lot less condition problems than silver?  I recently bought a 10x magnifier and I don't like what I see on the silver coins.  Thanks for your opinions.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 08:02:04 PM »
All silver and gold coins can exhibit corrosion if not properly stored.  The only difference is silver can form white spots which cannot be removed.  While all other types of corrosion on both slver and gold coins can be removed thru conservation ( except to the extent where corrosion penetrates the surface and the coin becomes damaged, which can happen on both silver and gold.)

Due to the potential for white spots on silver  I only try and buy silver that is already graded, as most white spots form after opening from the original seal.

Offline Birdman

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 08:16:07 PM »
Hello, I was just wondering how many of you got sick of all the white and dark spotting on silver coins and decided to buy only gold coins instead?  Anyone feel that way? I only have a couple gold coins but those two coins don't have any problems.  Do gold coins have a lot less condition problems than silver?  I recently bought a 10x magnifier and I don't like what I see on the silver coins.  Thanks for your opinions.

One opinion:  The perceived greater susceptibility of silver coins to condition issues such as "white spots of death" has definitely influenced my collecting focus.  At one time, I had several expensive low-pop MS70 silver pandas, but I was anxious worrying whether one of them would unpredictably sprout "white spots of death" and lose its numismatic value.  That factor, and a few others, led me to sell most of my silver pandas over the years.  Of my China coins, I'm 95%+ in gold right now and I sleep better.  I do have one fairly valuable silver China coin left, and it is the coin in my collection whose condition I worry most about.  Perhaps I am just paranoid about the modern silver numismatics, but most of the issues that affect the gold coins over time seem to be able to be addressed by a trip to NCS, which is now $50 for coins under $3000.  That seems to be a reasonable insurance policy in case something happens...That's only my 2 cents.  I'm sure there are others who prefer silver over gold.  Perhaps those people have a better understanding about "White Spots of Death" and the other issues that make me hesitant.

Offline cloudtoground

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 10:39:32 PM »
All silver and gold coins can exhibit corrosion if not properly stored.  The only difference is silver can form white spots which cannot be removed.  While all other types of corrosion on both slver and gold coins can be removed thru conservation ( except to the extent where corrosion penetrates the surface and the coin becomes damaged, which can happen on both silver and gold.)

Due to the potential for white spots on silver  I only try and buy silver that is already graded, as most white spots form after opening from the original seal.

"Due to the potential for white spots on silver  I only try and buy silver that is already graded, as most white spots form after opening from the original seal."
From what I am seeing I don't think the slab has much to do with white spots because some of them are forming rather rapidly despite keeping them in good conditions. About 80-90% of the coins I buy are graded and it looks like on some of them the spots showed up after grading and on some of the others the spots are impossible to see but with a 10X I can see them perfectly and realize it may be just a matter of time before they consume the coin.  These coins are PR69-70 and have lots of luster and shine and even a normal magnifying glass can't pick the spots up that well.  It's strange because some are getting large spots rapidly while other coins from the 80s have very small white spots that I can only see under the 10x so they are developing slowly.  I see it on Chinese silver, Mexican Libertads and a couple graded bullion eagles.  Chinese and Mexican coins are quite a bit worse than US coins.  All I can say is get a 10x if you don't have one, it may change your mind.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 10:57:48 PM »
I think everyone's experience with white spots is different.  My silver is fine, from one ounce pandas to 20 ounce unicorns. 

You many want to check how you are storing your coins.

Offline cloudtoground

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 11:06:05 PM »
I've been keeping the coins in NGC plastic slab holders in a file cabinet in a dry environment.  I probably will move them to a safe deposit box in the future but what else can I do?  In any case these are normal storage condition and I don't want to do more than that.  Have you ever checked your coins with a 10x?

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 11:14:03 PM »
First, NGC or PCGS slabs are not air-tight. Second, if you have not already done so, here is a good thread to start:

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7646.0

Offline cloudtoground

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 11:56:59 PM »
Sort of funny because I didn't expect someone who has a business devoted to this type of thing to answer my post but I thank you for the information.  I need one of the those bags that cover an entire NGC slab holder or currency box, LOL.  I might try it for the silver coinage and for the few gold coins I have.  I haven't had any problems with paper products.  I've been collecting prints for about 15 years now and I haven't noticed any additional problems and those are just kept between a couple pieces of acid-free paper.  I don't know if the currency paper is as high of a quality as print paper but based on what I've seen from old banknotes I think it must be good quality paper.  I have already decided to limit my Silver coin buys to the must-haves, between the fakes and the spots I've been soured on them.  Even though corrosion Intercept has been around I've never seen it in bag form and I wonder how well that will work over time.

Offline cloudtoground

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 01:18:12 AM »
Just getting around to reading the entire conversation in your post... "The large bags for comic books have arrived and they will fit one NGC 20 slab box."
OK, that's good.  Maybe around the more important coins and around the slab box.
I'm still interested in other peoples investing decisions on silver coins considering what you've experienced.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 09:53:14 AM »
Silver has more upside than gold.   The white spots of death are actually white spots of low price.   When the market is strong i have seen many heavily spotted MCC sell for a discount.   They still sell, they are not dead.   Did Arif post some time ago that he sold a bent silver panda kilo for over $3,000 in a strong market?  The chances of early year conserved silver MCC having problems is much smaller than the problems the new issue silver have.   We are entering into the strong market again.   For me the upside that silver has is more relevant than a couple of my MCC developing a few spots and losing a grade or two.   Silver is way under valued.  I like the graded, conservered & early year MCC.   Quality OMP is good too.  How can you lose on silver MCC at today's prices?.......

Offline cloudtoground

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 02:30:42 PM »
Silver has more upside than gold.   The white spots of death are actually white spots of low price.   When the market is strong i have seen many heavily spotted MCC sell for a discount.   They still sell, they are not dead.   Did Arif post some time ago that he sold a bent silver panda kilo for over $3,000 in a strong market?  The chances of early year conserved silver MCC having problems is much smaller than the problems the new issue silver have.   We are entering into the strong market again.   For me the upside that silver has is more relevant than a couple of my MCC developing a few spots and losing a grade or two.   Silver is way under valued.  I like the graded, conservered & early year MCC.   Quality OMP is good too.  How can you lose on silver MCC at today's prices?.......

I won't sell my coins but will try to conserve some of them and protect them all with those intercept bags.  There're still some silver coins that are must haves for me but I certainly will reduce the buying.   You're probably right in a strong market you can sell anyting at a decent price.   I collect a lot of world paper currency also and Chinese paper currency  (the $100. $500 and $1000) are doing very well also.  But if anyone doesn't have a 10x I would get one because you can really see what's going on with the coin when it arrives and you can send it back if you don't like what you see.  A lot of PR69s, 70s have great shine and luster and it's difficult to see the problems developing even with a normal magnifying glass.  There seems to be some dealers out there that specialize in selling problems coins.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Silver and Gold
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 09:21:12 PM »
If you have 50 silver MCC, how many will develop spots or problems?  Maybe just a few.  I don't want to micro my MCC 10 X or more.   I will see problems at that level and if I want a perfect coin then will buy 70 only.   Tiny spots or problems can cause collectors to get a bit too concerned.   Most all sellers/dealers will unload their problems first.  I like the intercept bags too.   Chinese paper notes are seeing bigger gains then MCC due to bullion price manipulation.   Prices of notes just a few months ago were much cheaper.   Maybe i should sell my notes.....