Author Topic: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?  (Read 2879 times)

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Offline Gilmore

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2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« on: January 31, 2013, 04:40:20 AM »
I was playing today with 2001 S50Y Snake images and found out differences in the location of the denomination. If this is a known thing that was discussed before, my apologies . It is new to me.

The photos are from Zhaoonline. I 'borrowed' SANDAC's methods for comparison by overlaying the 2 images.

The distance of the 50Y from the upper rim of the coin is marked with red and yellow lines on both images. There is a noticeable difference between the two.

The green arrow at the bottom pointing at what looks like another branch in the plant is nothing but a thread lying on the capsule IMO. It looks similar to the small line next to the top green arrow (near the 50Y) and probably should be ignored.

I'd appreciate another pair of eyes to look at this.

Links:
http://www.zhaoonline.com/zhongguodangdaijinyinbi/1878585.shtml
http://www.zhaoonline.com/zhongguodangdaijinyinbi/1548632.shtml
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:49:17 AM by Gilmore »

Online SANDAC

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 10:08:44 AM »
Good find!  I only have 2 NGC cert numbers and they are both far-from-rim, so I can not confirm whether the close-to-rim is genuine or not.  The cert numbers are 3307321-012, -013

Edit: I'm not familiar with mint seals.  Can someone look at both pictures and identify the mints?

PCGS-ASIA, if the far- and near-to-rim are confirmed, are they sufficiently different to qualified as different varieties?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 10:18:43 AM by SANDAC »

Offline wg

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 10:40:54 AM »

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 11:16:26 AM »
wg is correct. Both mint seals are Shanyang.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 11:22:57 AM »
http://www.zhaoonline.com/zhongguodangdaijinyinbi/1878585.shtml

This is a questionable coin, may not be genuine. Too much three dimensional details are missing. Pouch is also questionable.

Online SANDAC

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 07:23:47 PM »
Looking back at eBay completed sales, I found 2 2001 50Y rectangular snake:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARCE-2001-CHINA-SILVER-50Y-RECTANGLE-LUNAR-YEAR-OF-SNAKE-SECURE-PCGS-PR69DCAM-/200878877461

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCARCE-2001-CHINA-SILVER-50Y-RECTANGLE-LUNAR-YEAR-OF-SNAKE-SECURE-PCGS-PR69DCAM-/200878966615

They are both PCGS graded, PCGS 26323613 and 26327332 and they are both close-to-rim.  I think it is reasonable to state that there are two varieties of the 2001 S50Y snake.  Beside the distance of the denomination, I think there maybe differences in the character "yuan".

Online SANDAC

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 08:02:02 PM »
Good find!  I only have 2 NGC cert numbers and they are both far-from-rim, so I can not confirm whether the close-to-rim is genuine or not.  The cert numbers are 3307321-012, -013
Well, the NGC 3307321-012 and 3307321-013 that I so casually passed off as far-from-rim variety, are in fact two different varieties.  The first clue is the reverse where there appears to be design differences as pointed by the arrows.  If one takes a close look at the denomination on the obverse, one would sense some differences.  The difference is best demonstrated with an animated GIF.  Click on the third picture, and wait a few seconds for it to load, and you'll see the spacing and orientation of denomination are different.

I've noticed in the past few months of variety hunting that large size coins are prune to many varieties.  

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 08:08:21 PM »
I think there maybe differences in the character "yuan".

Good observation SANDAC. Yesterday while examining the two images I posted I thought there are differences in the yuan figure in the distance of the left and right stroke (marked with a yellow arrow). There is probably a minor difference in shape of the bottom half of the '5'. The one on the left is rounder.

Both images below are adjusted to the same dimensions for comparison. I used the eBay image as it is clearer.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 08:10:36 PM by Gilmore »

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 08:18:09 PM »
Well, the NGC 3307321-012 and 3307321-013 that I so casually passed off as far-from-rim variety, are in fact two different varieties.  The first clue is the reverse where there appears to be design differences as pointed by the arrows.  If one takes a close look at the denomination on the obverse, one would sense some differences.  The difference is best demonstrated with an animated GIF.  Click on the third picture, and wait a few seconds for it to load, and you'll see the spacing and orientation of denomination are different.

Good job SANDAC.

Here we have new snake varieties for the new snake year starting in few days. What a perfect timing  :001_smile:




Offline Gilmore

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 08:39:56 PM »
I wonder why so many differences in details for a relatively low mintage of 1888. Is the minting process of large size coins more difficult than striking small coins, resulting in broken or worn out dies? 


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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2013, 12:16:05 AM »
Oh boy! lots of high-res pictures to play with!

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2013, 01:43:37 AM »
This is just weird.   This is my understanding of proof coin making:  a planchet is struck multiple times to achieve the polished mirrored background and the high relief.  To prevent planchet from stretching between strikes, there is some kind of "collar" at the edge.  If the collar is absent or not functioning properly, then the coin may stretch between strikes and caused blurring of features or even multiple images, especially near the edge.  The effect is similar to "strike doubling".  I think what appears as design differences are actually problem with the collar such that many coins show "strike tripling" at the edge and a general blurring of features near the center.

What I don't understand is why the date (2001) and Chinese characters above the date not exhibit the tripling effect.  Were they done separately?  And is this why there are so many minor date variation?

First picture is what a 2001 50Y snake should look like which actually is in the minority.  Second picture shows strike tripling features and the majority of the 2001 50Y snake have that.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2013, 02:56:42 AM »
This is just weird. 

It is. Single, double and triple strikes all on the same coin?
Notice also the areas marked in the yellow circle and compare them to "lot 1192b_f.jpg". They are also different.
It looks like the building was under ongoing construction when the coin was struck :-)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 02:58:53 AM by Gilmore »

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Re: 2001 Snake S50Y rectangle - Variety?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 09:30:34 PM »
In this month's newsletter, https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5779/Modern-Chinese-Varieties-2001-Silver-50Y-Snake/ ,
NGC recognizes there are varieties in the 2001 50Y snake.  However, I'm not clear which of the several varieties they are recognizing.  The pictures in their newsletter show the 'large 50-yuan near snake head' vs 'small 50-yuan far from snake head' (see animated overlay below), but there exists a third varieties, 'small 50-yuan near snake head' (see the animated overlay of 3307321-012 vs 3307321-013 on Reply #6 of this thread).  Furthermore, I also believe there are double and triple strike varieties on the obverse, so there are quite a number of combination of varieties.