Author Topic: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety  (Read 11073 times)

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Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2016, 05:56:08 PM »
The pricing on the high 2 has really moved up in a couple of years (disclosure I own a 1/10 and 1/20):

1/10

April 2015 - $2,000 (MS69)
July 2016 - $7700 (MS69)
Dec. 2016 - $5400 (ungraded)

1/20

April 2015 - $2,000 (MS69)
Sept. 2016 - $2,200 (MS68)

I don't recall if the original APMEX or Clark Smith one were true "high 2's and what the asking price was.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2016, 06:05:44 PM »
For the record here are the known cert. numbers:

1/10 (total correct NGC Pop is 6)

3307379-027
3805833-053
3878499-002

1/20 (total NGC Pop is 5)

3307379-026
3805833-054
3878499-001

+ one ungraded 1/10.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2016, 09:19:57 PM »
The pictures of this raw coin are attached for future reference. It has the same surface defects as pictures shown at NGC website.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2016, 05:27:26 PM »
The authenticity of 1992 high 2 version for 1/10 and 1/20 oz., IMO, is still questionable.

Attached pictures of high 2 coins are copied from NGC websites.
 
https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/gold-pandas-and-commemoratives/1992-g5y-panda-large-date-high-2-5170

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-varieties/gold-pandas-and-commemoratives/1992-g10y-panda-large-date-high-2-5171

Attached also pictures of 1992 large date 1/10 and 1/20 oz. gold panda. Please note the differences in 1/10 and 1/20. There are other differences in the size of lines. Most lines in high 2 appear to be wider, suggesting the potential of reproduction.

Both 1/10 and 1/20 being on the same invoice three times makes this high 2 version very suspicious.


Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2016, 11:41:27 PM »
The previous picture of 1/20 oz. large date is not really good enough to see the differences of 1/20. Here are the better pictures. Please note that 2 and 0 in large date has a different size from high 2 version and lightly connected.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2016, 11:49:57 PM »
I agree with Poco, these high 2 coins are questionable authenticity for reasons he mentioned plus an experienced collector that I trust advised me to avoid them above $500.  They may turn out to be legit, but at current prices I prefer to not own them for my personal collection.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2016, 06:20:54 AM »
Not worried there is always the NGC guarantee.  And if they are ever confirmed to be what another large collector in Of rare MCC and I think they are then they are quite rare.  Just like the gold panda market, the market for rare error type coins among MCC is even smaller and many collectors are not focused on this highly specialized area.  Immediate reactions is to say they are fake.  Just because you have not seen or handled one does not mean they don't exist.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2016, 09:37:06 AM »
Would you also consider these of questionable authenticity?

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/4217/


Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2016, 11:15:04 AM »
The missing mint mark is a true error coin based on what I have heard, that one is safer to collect, similar to broken leg 1984 1/2.  The High 2 too many are questioning it, so that is why I am staying away.  It is similar to 1984 silver pagoda debate on mintage, too many conflicting opinions, is it 260 or 1000 or some other number make it less desirable for me to own or deal in.  New information could come out that could spikes or carter the coin, so risk reward profile doesn't suit me or those that I typically sell to.  At current prices I think it is safer to be a seller than an owner, was my main point.  At $500 maybe better to be an owner than seller.  

I have over 20 gold panda coins that are unrecognized varieties that I am accumulating at common coin price, someday maybe a few will turn out to be special like 1984 1/2 broken leg, while others I will simply break even and sell off as common variety, that is kind of risk reward that I like when it comes to varieties.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2016, 01:47:07 PM »
I'm also collecting unrecognized varieties hopefully with a small markup.  There are quite a number of varieties out there and NGC seems to have the special knack of recognizing minor varieties and leave the major ones alone!  I applaud 1668Chris' efforts in collecting and bring unusual varieties to light.  IMO the High 2 are real and at this stage I'm not concern about controversy since it'll keep the price low.   I'd dearly love to acquire NGC graded MS69 ones at $1000 each.  So anyone wants to sell them at that price please PM me.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2016, 05:20:54 PM »
Chris,

If it is possible, please take high resolution pictures of your 1/10 and 1/20 high 2 at the same area of the attached pictures. This may provide additional information to convince me this high 2 version may be genuine.

Pictures at NGC website usually have a high reflection and may generate optical illusion and not reliable.
 
Nevertheless, based on the pictures from NGC website and yjzx, the style of 9 for high 2 version is different from regular large date. The odd for Shanghai Mint to use different production dies for both obverse and reverse to make this high 2 version is just too low, if the difference in 9 is not caused by the optical illusion.
 
The fifth picture is copied from high 2 raw coin from recent auction at yjzx (reply # 29) which you posted and last picture is also from yjzx (NGC68, 3878499-001), also posted by you in reply # 27.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2016, 11:36:37 AM »
No time for pics....but here is a large date with very similar looking thick lines....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/291971055802


Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2016, 08:30:53 PM »
I don't have 1992 1/20 gold panda, but I do have a number of 1989, 1990, and 1991 1/20.  Looking at what I have closely, the 1989 and 1991 are fairly consistent, but I do see the 1990 have good bit of variation in the letterings--similar to that of the 1992 High 2 vs 1992 Large Date.  Below is a side-by-side comparison.  Both coins are graded by NGC.

Offline 1668Chris

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Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2016, 05:21:49 PM »
NGC is very slow in identifying the fake MCC. This fake 2012 colored lunar dragon coin was known long time ago (two weeks after genuine coin issued by China Mint) and considered as a low quality fake because of its size of stars and the lack of 3-D details as well as the anti-counterfeit design (different shades in frosty surfaces) incorporated by China Mints in recent years.

Attached are pictures of reverse of genuine and fake copied from NGC article.  As always, the NGC pictures are not good quality and hard to see the details. Nevertheless, the difference in the size of stars is obvious and most lines are thicker due to the difference in the process of making the frosty surfaces.