Author Topic: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety  (Read 11688 times)

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Offline Birdman

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1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« on: December 21, 2012, 08:46:34 AM »
I am trying to keep up with the new varieties.  In browsing the Apmex website, I noticed that there is a 1992 G1/10 Large Date "High 2" variety.

http://www.apmex.com/Product/73324/1992_1_10_oz_Gold_Chinese_Pandas___MS_69_NGC_Large_Date_High_2.aspx

They certainly seem to be charging a premium for it at $899.  At the moment there are only 4 graded with that designation at NGC, although there may be many graded merely as LD that could actually be this "new?" variety.  My question is how long has this variety been recognized (G1/10 isn't my focus so I could be behind the times)?  How rare is it?  Perhaps there is a thread somewhere that I missed that has photos showing how to distinguish it from the regular G1/10 Large Date.  (Obviously, it will have something to do with the "2" being shifted higher, I guess).  The "High 2" doesn't appear to be yet listed in the G1/10 NGC registry, but perhaps that will be coming?  Also, do you think the variety is also present for the other denominations, even though I don't recall it being yet recgonized for the G1/4 and G1/2 the last time I checked?...

Offline radderlee

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 10:21:19 AM »
I think the 2 is far range outer ring , and near inner ring, same as 2 in the SD coin, only one 2 figure.

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 02:21:42 PM »
I cannot say for sure without a closer look at the coin.
However, here is my unverified speculation:
This is likely a 1992 SD sent in with LD pieces and mislabeled as a variety within a variety vice a LD or SD. It is probably a mislabeled SD.

Offline Dr650rob

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 03:29:39 PM »
I noticed that coin on apmex a month or 2 ago

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 03:36:27 PM »
Doesn't Clark Smith have on eon his site as well? In the newest Chinese coins section . . . sorry to mislead . . . i don't see it labeled as a "high 2"

Offline davidt3251

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 11:33:29 PM »
There is also now one G5Y 1992 LD High 2 in NGC MS69 in the census

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 12:39:22 AM »
Picture of the G5Y LD vs LD High2.  The differences are quite striking.

I believe the "LD High2" posted by Birdman on Apmex site is incorrectly labelled.  I'll post a side-by-side picture shortly.

Offline davidt3251

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 12:53:08 AM »
Sandac, its very striking, one might even think its a fake.-D

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 12:56:29 AM »
The is one of the four LD high 2 in NGC census (actually one in 3 since the other one, 3596179-003, is mislabelled).  Notice it is the next higher number from 3307379-026, the only LD high-2 G5Y in NGC census.  Some one is very lucky with the High2!


Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 12:58:34 AM »
Sandac, its very striking, one might even think its a fake.-D
Yes, that thought occurs to me as well.  In fact, I need dc55232's help.  I do not know the NGC numbers of the two other G10Y High2.  If they both are like the LD High2 posted here, then it is more likely to be genuine.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2013, 02:16:07 AM »
Stumbled across the "High 2" varieties on NGC's website.  Nice close up pictures.

http://www.ngccoin.com/VPVariety.aspx?coinid=5170
http://www.ngccoin.com/VPVariety.aspx?coinid=5171

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2013, 05:07:04 PM »
In light of the nice pictures on NGC site concerning "High 2" varieties, I e-mailed NGC about possible mislabelled of cert. number 3596179-003 from Apmex mentioned in Birdman's original posting.  Max Spiegel of NGC responded quickly and acknowledged 3596179-003 is incorrectly attributed and updated the database to "small date':
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3596179-003

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 01:46:55 PM »
Thanks to dc55232, I have the other two "High 2" NGC numbers.  However, both of them are mis-labelled!  The two numbers are 3593098-004 and 3593098-009.  The "Data/Info" field indicates they are high-2:

Date/Info: 1992 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE - HIGH 2
Denomination: G10Y
Grade: MS 69 

However, the coins are clearly 1999 Large Date Serif 1.  So of the four 1992 G10Y High-2 in NGC population, three of them are mislabelled.  :ohmy:  >:( The 3307379-026 and 3307379-027 are unique G10Y and G5Y High 2.  David3251 comment of them being possible fake is still plausible.

Offline Obsidian

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 02:08:31 PM »
I have personally owned and seen a number of 1992 1/10ths.  I have examined them all closely because I have always had a hard time determining LD vs SD.  I have never seen one that looked like that "new" variety.  I have seen 1992 in both shenyang and shanghai original packaging and none of the coins in either of those packages look like the large date "high 2" that is pictured above on the right.

I don't know if they are fake but I personally think something is off.

I believe NGC needs to eliminate this 1992 LD "high 2" as a variety since a large number of the supposed graded population are mislabeled or questionable.  Why muddy the waters adding these supposed new varieties without larger confirmed populations.

SANDAC maybe you could contact whoever you talked to at NGC about these coins and let them know that 2 of the 4 coins are completely different years and the other 2 don't match each other (one matches a known variety).  So that basically leaves ONE 1/10th that doesn't match any known variety.  This makes that coin and the entire variety VERY questionable. Could be a fake, error, or pattern.  Who knows.

Thank you SANDAC for your research into this.

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: 1992 Gold Panda Large Date "High 2" variety
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2015, 07:50:46 PM »
The last update on this thread is over 2 years old.  There have been a few more of these graded and a set of 1/10 and 1/20 showed up in the recent auction in Macau.

The last update in 2013 originally had 4, 1/10 graded.  Of those 4, three were mislabeled.  Leaving one original.  Today there are 6 in total graded by NGC.  Two of the originals are still mislabeled - 3593098-004, 009 (the other was fixed by NGC).  Therefore there are now a total of 4 in the NGC population.  Two of which are known.

1) 3307379-027
2) 3805833-053

As for the 1/20, the last update in 2013 had 1, 1/20 graded.  There are now three.  Two of which are known.

1) 3307379-026
2) 3805833-054

Below are pic of 3805833-053 and 054