Author Topic: Sighting of 1984 Shanghai Proof 35th Anniversay of Founding of PRC Set in US  (Read 10689 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
Here is some background information about 1984 35th founding of PRC commemorative 3-coin set. The set was minted by Shanghai and Shenyang Mint in UNC and proof versions and they were first circulated commemorative coin ever produced by China Mint.

The Shanghai mint proof set was only discovered in April, 2007. It was surprised to all proof circulated coin collectors inside China. The information in Chinese websites suggested that this set was never issued and destroyed because of the error in the coin. Based on the information, the mintage of this set is about 50. They were shown to collectors in sheet for individual coin, no COA or fancy box for this proof set. Up to now, Shanghai Mint refuses to say anything about this set. The official answer is “this set was never issued”.

The major difference between Shenyang and Shanghai Mint set is the missing columns of the center hall in the reverse. However, the website information also suggests that one of the coin (dancers) in some of those sets has columns. There are other differences in individual coin. The details are provided in a table in page 3 of the following link and copy with English translation is given in the attached table, picture 1. In general, coin of Shanghai Mint has many missing designs vs. Shenyang Mint. The differences of four long decorative lines on reverse are obvious. All lines in Shenyang set are ended at rim, while coins of Shanghai Mint do not. The size of 5 stars is slightly difference, but it is not easy to see, unless the coins are placed side by side.

http://bbs4.xx007.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardid=10&replyid=3996317&id=2466816&page=163&skin=0&Star=1

The Shenyang Mint proof sets usually were packed either in fancy boxes or hard plastic holder with imprinted name of Peoples’ Bank of China as shown in the attached pictures. (2 & 3)

NGC has designated the name of these three coins as following; Speech (大典), Cranes (华表), Dancers (欢庆). The following NGC graded PF69 set is believed to be Shanghai Mint proof set, which was sold for $14,000 (RMB88,888) in November, 2011.

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=3299322-001

The current value of Shanghai proof set is about $10,000, while Shenyang proof set is about $350.

The Shanghai Mint proof set discussed herein was discovered by an avid collector of MCC and member of this forum in Delaware. The set was packed in three connected double sealed pouches as shown in picture 4 and 5.

The high resolution pictures of reverse of Shenyang Mint proof coin, taken from two directions (90 degree difference), are provided in the next post as picture 1 & 2 to show the depth and thickness of the lines. In order to examine the differences between Shanghai and Shenyang Mint proof sets, the pictures of reverse of Shanghai Mint, UNC, taking in identical directions to the Shenyang Mint proof coin are also posted as picture 3 & 4. They demonstrate some similarity of UNC and proof coins made at Shanghai Mint; both have thinner and shallower lines than Shenyang Mint coin. The pictures attached in the next two posts (3 & 4) also suggest that a very small residue of columns of center hall of “speech” and “cranes” can be seen with a high power magnifier, in contrast to the observation made by the author of the Chinese web link mentioned above.

In Post 3, 4 and 5, the detail pictures of each coin will be posted to confirm the differences outlined in the table in picture 1 of Post 1. The very small residue columns and flags can still visible in “speech” and “cranes” coins with a high power magnifier. This suggests that Shanghai Mint proof set may use the same die in producing the UNC set. In order to produce a mirror surface, the die used in minting UNC coin has to be polished. During earlier year (pre-1995), the China Mint might use sand blasting to the die. Therefore, the narrow and shallow lines might be removed completely or partially during the treatment. “Dancers” coin appears to have less effect during the polishing treatment and has more design details than other two coins, in consistency to the observations made by the experts inside China.
 
Many thanks to the owner of this set for the opportunity to examine this very rare proof set and allow me to post the pictures in this forum.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 02:48:35 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
Picture 1 & 2 are reverse of Shenyang mint proof coin and picture 3 & 4 are Shanghai mint UNC coin. Picture 1 & 3 were scanned from left to right and 2 & 4 were from top to bottom. The columns of center hall in Shenyang coin are clearly visible in both scans, while columns in pictures 4 of shanghai mint UNC is visible, but not in picture 3. This clearly suggests that the vertical column lines in Shanghai Mint are narrow and shallow even for UNC version. This is also true for flag poles on roof top of both buildings.

Picture 5 is the reverse of Shenyang Mint proof set.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 02:38:32 PM by poconopenn »

Offline dobedo

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
  • Karma: 1
poconopenn needs to publish a book on MCC based on his vast knowledge.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
Detailed pictures of "Speech" coin.

Correction: The translation in the second line for "speech" coin in the table of posting 1 was incorrect. Post behined the lantern should be lantern behind the post. The 2nd picture shows no lantern for Shanghai Mint coin. The Shenyang Mint coin has a lantern.   
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 04:00:20 PM by poconopenn »

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
Detailed pictures of "cranes" coin.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
Detailed pictures of "dancers" coin.

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: 23
poconopenn needs to publish a book on MCC based on his vast knowledge.
     How about poconopen's own website or fan club?     :)  ..........

Offline tjujoypop

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: 6
I purchased a Shanghai mint proof set about 2 years ago!

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
I purchased a Shanghai mint proof set about 2 years ago!

Congratulation, you are one of 50 prided owners of this set.

If I remember correctly, you are from China. Can you contact the Chinese author of link mentioned in my post ? I will be appreciated if he can make few comments about this set at CCF. He can post here in Chinese, same as RAREMEDAL. Many members of this forum can read Chinese and also are familiar in using googl or bing translator.

http://bbs4.xx007.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardid=10&replyid=3996317&id=2466816&page=163&skin=0&Star=1

Offline tjujoypop

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: 6
I've refered this post to him.
Actually, he cannot read Chinese.
He will try to give this a reply.

Offline tjujoypop

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: 6
PCGS 69 set, Shanghai mint.

Offline tjujoypop

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Karma: 6
Another picture.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
tjujoypop,

Very nice PCGS set, congratulation!

Thanks for posting this thread in coin001.com.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=18151

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
any idea on current value of Shanghai proof set.  Not sure I have seen one sold in a while.

thanks,
Chris

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
any idea on current value of Shanghai proof set.  Not sure I have seen one sold in a while.

thanks,
Chris

The last auction inside China (zhaoonline) was on 1/16/2016 for PR69/68/68 set. The final value, with 7% commission, was about $6,000.

http://www.zhaoonline.com/zhongguoliutongjinianbi/3552637.shtml

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
thanks....and overall how is the market for circulating proofs?

Online PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2407
  • Karma: 76
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
thanks....and overall how is the market for circulating proofs?

Strong, from what I see. You can get a good idea from the coin001 auction from July 25-26.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
The prices for proof circulated coins are relatively stable during last few years. However, for highest graded proof coins, the premium is excellent. Please note 1993 copper proof panda, the valuation of PF68 ($5,100) is about 600% higher than PF67 ($820).

Here are price listing for 7/10/2017 and 3/31/2016 respectively from coin001.com.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=127641

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=89027&fpage=6


Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
any idea on current value of Shanghai proof set.  Not sure I have seen one sold in a while.

thanks,
Chris

The last auction inside China (zhaoonline) was on 1/16/2016 for PR69/68/68 set. The final value, with 7% commission, was about $6,000.

http://www.zhaoonline.com/zhongguoliutongjinianbi/3552637.shtml

Excellent result for NGC PR69 set in auction ended this morning at coin001.net. The final value was RMB 89,265 (US$13,125)

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=561&skip=1



Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
Thanks.  It's a shame that NGC does not distinguish sets similar to PCGS.

Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: 23
Congratulation, you are one of 50 prided owners of this set.

If I remember correctly, you are from China. Can you contact the Chinese author of link mentioned in my post ? I will be appreciated if he can make few comments about this set at CCF. He can post here in Chinese, same as RAREMEDAL. Many members of this forum can read Chinese and also are familiar in using googl or bing translator.

http://bbs4.xx007.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardid=10&replyid=3996317&id=2466816&page=163&skin=0&Star=1





50 sets?    Is that graded pop, minted or surviving pop?..........

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
Minted.

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
What's so special about this coin?

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=861&skip=1




This proof Cu-Ni Tibet coin was packed in VIP gift box with a mintage about 200. This coin has a weight about 9.2 gm, 1.2 gm lower than the regular Cu-Ni Tibet proof coin, which was packed in 2-coin (included silver proof coin) set with a mintage of 3,000 (planned mintage. 10,000).

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
After reviewing the auction results this market seems very strong.  Proof circulating and bank specimens are doing very well.  There were several bank specimens on eBay which I hemmed and hawed over and never pulled the trigger.  My mistake.  As I think these will be very difficult to obtain in the US in the future.

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
Excellent result for NGC PR69 set in auction ended this morning at coin001.net. The final value was RMB 89,265 (US$13,125)

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=561&skip=1




The link provided for big auction action shows auctions for higher value coins.  Is this type of auction held weekly?  I cannot seem to find any auctions past the July 26 date?  Thanks

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
The link provided for big auction action shows auctions for higher value coins.  Is this type of auction held weekly?  I cannot seem to find any auctions past the July 26 date?  Thanks

The link is for special quarterly auction which usually is for rare circulated coins. The following is the link for daily auction.

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=auction

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
Thanks.  Did not know that was a quarterly auction.  I just assumed it was weekly.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
Thanks.  Did not know that was a quarterly auction.  I just assumed it was weekly.

Yes, it is quarterly. The date for Fall auction has not been posted yet. However, several rare circulated coins are being previewed in the following link.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=129642


Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
Yes, it is quarterly. The date for Fall auction has not been posted yet. However, several rare circulated coins are being previewed in the following link.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=129642



is there a date for the fall auction and a link?

thanks.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
is there a date for the fall auction and a link?

thanks.

The fall auction date: 11/9-11/14. No link has been provided yet. The following link is for fall auction catalog.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=133751

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Karma: 34
    • Coin Armour
thanks.  Is that a Coin Armour bag I see holding the 1984 proof set?? Smart move and always nice to see collectors taking care of their coins.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2564
  • Karma: 220
is there a date for the fall auction and a link?

thanks.

Here is the link to Fall Auction.

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&testcoin=1



Offline pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1988
  • Karma: 23
I looked at all 10 pages.       Maybe it should be named Mr Sun's auction as most are circulating coins, etc.... very few silver and i am not sure if i saw any gold.        Circulating coins are really moving up.....