Author Topic: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993  (Read 100399 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #75 on: December 01, 2011, 12:43:58 PM »
Nice, it looks like you've figured out how to do it! One problem though, the crops are not small enough. Can you crop down to only the area that is highlighted in the annotation? That will make the images a small enough size to not cover up the whole screen when they pop up :)

Also, if you prefer, instead of cropping smaller you can simply resize the photos you have by adding a size like 300px in this example:

[[File:filename.jpg|frame|300px|description]]

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Karma: 118
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2011, 12:46:27 PM »
If we could get a photo of the 1992 box, it will be interesting to see if it has 5 places or 4 places for coins.
Xu Hong has a 1992 series for sale with box.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-22g-silver-coin-set-historical-figures-9-/250934627720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6cde8d88

The box contains only 4 coin slots.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Karma: 118
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2011, 12:49:54 PM »
The writing outside of the box makes no reference to date.  So it probably is a generic box for the Historical Figures, which should have 4 coins, except the 1992 set.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2011, 02:02:31 PM »
On the small army specimen CC14, I removed the link you added to NGC's verification in the Notes section, since that info is already automatically generated for you. Thanks for testing out all those specimen features. I'm pleased to see everything went smoothly.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Karma: 118
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2011, 05:19:41 PM »
I just received this coin in the mail.  It is a minor variation of the 1989 Kublai Khan Big Army.  The normal Big Army has 10 spears.  This variation only has 7 spears.  The rightmost three spears have totally vanished.  I can't find even trace of them with different lighting.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2011, 11:05:08 PM »
Good find! It looks to be in quality condition too. I'll have to check mine to see if I have any of this variety. Luckily for us, the Coin Compendium can easily shuffle around the other two varieties to accommodate this new one. We might have to start naming them according to how many spears there are. If I remember correctly, the big army has 10 spears. How many does the small army have? Did you put this variety on the Coin Compendium?

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Karma: 118
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2011, 01:20:12 PM »
This leaves me pondering. If grading uncirculated proof coins are suppose to reflect how well the coin looks, e.g. if all the features of the coin are there (!), it should count. That hut is a cool hut, all else equal I would prefer a coin with the full hut, also the text of Cai Wenji, it has a purpose, a meaning, if some of the words are gone, a coin showing the full meaning should get a better grade. I take this as a sign that the graders are not aware of all the varities since they dont have a lot of experience from the coins... a weak strike, or missing features must be graded lower, if not, what is the purpose of grading proof uncirculated coins?
I sent off some of the coins I presented on this thread to NCS/NGC and here are some results I just received:
1.  The 1990 Zheng He with vanishing mast received PF69
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4585.msg25370#msg25370

2. The 1990 LiZicheng short robe, small gap received PF69
The 1990 LiZicheng Long robe, big gap received PF68
The 1990 LiZicheng medium robe, big gap received PF68
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4585.msg25323#msg25323

3. The 1987 Li Chun Tight sleeve received PF67
The 1987 Li Chun Vanishing base received PF68
The coins have some scratches and rubs so both these grades were expected. 
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4585.msg25367#msg25367

The bottom lines:  Vanishing features do not seem to affect a coin's grade.

I'll post all them on CC after I received them and have the opportunity to take better photos of them.

Offline DiggingNorway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • Gold Source
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2011, 03:01:02 PM »
DiggingNorway, Could you provide a zoomed in picture of Cai Wenji?  I'm curious to know whether the characters are faded like what I have and whether it contains an error in the third character from the bottom.  Thanks

Here is  my two specimens..

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Karma: 118
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2011, 03:22:07 PM »
OK, so it looks just like the same Vanishing-characters-excessive-frosting-with-character-error coins that I have so many of.  A perfect (first strike?) Cai Wenji seems hard to find.  I know they exist because of this photo:

Offline DiggingNorway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • Gold Source
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2011, 03:24:05 PM »
wow that was a nice strike!

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Karma: 118
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2011, 03:34:59 PM »
Yep, that coin was sold on eBay June 26, 2011 for $285, which was possibly the highest raw historical coins sold.  There was 29 bids.  I think we are behind the curve.  Some guys out there is/are cornering the 1992 historical figures market.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2011, 04:24:09 PM »
Annotate those images on the Coin Compendium. That will be very helpful info. I don't know of any other historical figures to have sold ungraded for more than $285! We should add it as a sighting if we can find the ebay link.

Offline DiggingNorway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • Gold Source
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2011, 04:29:39 PM »
Yep, that coin was sold on eBay June 26, 2011 for $285, which was possibly the highest raw historical coins sold.  There was 29 bids.  I think we are behind the curve.  Some guys out there is/are cornering the 1992 historical figures market.

I think the series are gathering more interest; more coins are graded, one shouldent try to target a specific year in my opinion, rather just buy all the coins in the series one can get, for good prices.. The "jewel" of this series will be a complete set, with the gold coins, in as highest grade as possible, and with the OMP intact.... that will be an auction item in the future... so if one wants to get there, one will have to buy every single coin one can afford and find for a reasonable price... thats my strategy anyway...

I am following 5-6 ebay auctions currently (and bidding) some of them I will let go at 50-60USD as the pictures are lousy... others are more interesting

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2011, 04:51:21 PM »
I'm making some minor tweaks to the type names so it all matches the same format:

date weight oz metal series coin

to look like this:

1984 1/3 oz gold Chinese historical figures Qin Shi Huang

One thing I'm not sure about is where the variety name should go. For pandas, it's BEFORE the series/coin part:

1998 1/2 oz gold large date panda ("large date")
1995 1 oz silver proof panda ("proof")

For the historical figures, so far we've been putting the variety name AFTER the coin/series part:

1989 22 g silver Chinese historical figures Kublai Khan big army

Maybe we should put it before, like this:

1989 22 g silver Chinese historical figures big army Kublai Khan

What do you think? Also, notice that there's no need for commas, and capitalization is usually unnecessary except in names like "China" and "Kublai Khan".

Offline DiggingNorway

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • Gold Source
Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2011, 05:17:31 PM »
For HF i think variety should be AFTER...