Author Topic: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993  (Read 98026 times)

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Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2011, 03:02:51 PM »
OK, we can go with that convention until we find out something different. We already know it's different for pandas, but I have considered ignore the official idea about it, and just saying the panda is the obverse :)

Offline DiggingNorway

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Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2011, 09:31:54 PM »
One way to spot variation in the historical figures is to defocus and think of the mirrored background as “black” and the frosted foreground as “white”.  Then the coin is just some black pattern on white background.  Most of the differences I found this way are mirrored background becoming frosted foreground possibly due to excessive, uneven polishing of the die.  There are numerous examples of this.  At least three of them have already being discussed here in CCF:
CaiLun:  http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3719.msg25268#msg25268
Sima Qian: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=3035.msg13453#msg13453
Cai Wenji: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2908.msg13449#msg13449

I want to present two more.  There are even more, but I want to get my hand on these coins first before I talk about them.  The first is the 1986 Zhang Heng. 
The first picture is the normal one.
The second picture shows the mirrored fields circled in red are replaced with frosted area.

The other is the 1984 soldier with horse
The first picture is the normal one
The second picture shows the mirrored background between soldier’s body and hand is frosted.

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2011, 09:44:01 PM »
Can you upload unaltered versions of those photos to the Coin Compendium so we can annotate them using the image annotator?

I set up the kublai khan varieties, and I'm adding specimens and sightings for them now, so I can use them as examples in the Coin Compendium help, so everyone has an idea how it's supposed to work.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2011, 09:53:47 PM »
OK, I'm done for now.  There are a few more in the pipeline.  I'm waiting for these coins to come in so I can photograph and present them.  I believe there are a lot more variation yet to be discovered.  With the exception of the 1989 Kublai Khan "small army", most of these varieties are common occurrances and can be found by closely study a dozen or so coins.  I certainly have not yet studied 40 x 12 = 480 historical coins, and furthermore I believe there are rare varieties (like the "small army") that occur 1 in 20 or more.  So happy hunting and I hope you'll report back any new discoveries!

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2011, 09:55:21 PM »
Can you upload unaltered versions of those photos to the Coin Compendium so we can annotate them using the image annotator?

I set up the kublai khan varieties, and I'm adding specimens and sightings for them now, so I can use them as examples in the Coin Compendium help, so everyone has an idea how it's supposed to work.
Yes, I'll do that now.  I want to get this thread done before exploring coin compendium.  I'm looking forward to that!

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2011, 09:58:39 PM »
I'm entering some sightings for the Kublai Khan varieties, so hopefully we'll be able to figure out how rare they are.

Offline GDG's

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2011, 10:14:53 PM »
I would say that the side with the portrait is the obverse.... the side with the stars is the reverse


I think the obverse is usually the side reflecting monetary value.
Digging Norway & SANDAC I find your work on these coins very helpful and interesting. Great thread and thanks.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2011, 04:34:17 PM »
I got four more coins today at 50USD each, nothing special... no new specimens, but a new box... apparently they changes color every year? Would be great to be able to make a list over box-colors for each year...


Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2011, 05:20:51 PM »
Would be great to be able to make a list over box-colors for each year...

You can do that with the Coin Compendium. Just add the photos to CCT10 by clicking "Add an image for this type" under "Tools", or by clicking "Add an image" in the image gallery section. You can add photos of coins, COA's, boxes, brochures, receipts, auction catalog scans, and even screenshots.

The images you add will help a lot in researching the historical figures series. For example, once the images are uploaded, it will be easy for someone to translate the text on the top of the box into English, or any other language. The site is capable of supporting all of the world's languages, but those features have not been activated yet because the site is still being tested.

I'm proud to report that so far there have been only a few minor bugs discovered. No major problems have been found. That means it may soon be possible to open the site up for use while I work on adding more features.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2011, 05:25:51 PM »
Yes, I agree, but I dont hvae the data.... I dont know which box was used what year.... the boxes I have have been sold to me with different issues/years of coins in them... I guess one indicator would be to look at ebay auction that sells full year sets in their OMP...

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2011, 05:33:09 PM »
Then again maybe not:
here a 1985 set in blue box with red inside:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-China-5-Yuan-Proof-Silver-Set-4-Piece-/310330285604?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4841205e24

here a 1985 set with brown box and green inside:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-China-5-Yuan-Proof-Silver-Set-4-Piece-/200627503927?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb654c337

I guess "economy of scale" was not yet introduced when they minted these coins.. varities in everything!

Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2011, 05:36:24 PM »
You don't have to have that data. CCT10 is the Coin Compendium general type (formerly known as "supertype") for the Chinese historical figures series. We can show all the boxes for all years on that one CCT page. All you have to do is upload the photo, and someone who can read the box can figure out where else it should also go.

Offline DiggingNorway

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2011, 06:14:23 PM »
was there a fifth silver coin in 1992? for those who has the new book, check out page 61,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koxinga

it sure looks like it!!

The historical figueres according to this source: http://www.modernchinacoins.com/modernchinacoins/CHINESE_HISTORICAL_FIGURES.html

does NOT mention him... but in the book he is presented together with the 4 others.... and he apparantly was a histroical figuere...


Offline badon

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Re: Varieties of silver Historical Figures, 1984 to 1993
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2011, 06:44:57 PM »
I see 5 historical figures listed for 1992 also.